Trudy Metzger/Steve Stutzman

[anndet92]

I am very disappointed in Amos Raber and I hope he offers an explanation on the matter. The first reporting was in 2019 and Amos Raber married the couple in 2020. The girl was signed off by some relatives. Could it be that Amos Raber was unaware of the prior abuse, by the groom.

And as usual after Trudy's FB post about Amos Rabor, her followers piled on with their hate filled posts stereotyping Mennonite and Amish men as predators and abusers.

With one poster saying:
"I'm gonna say it.... if you wanna protect your kids, get them as far away from Amish/Mennonite/Anabaptist communities and churches".

And another poster saying:
“What a bunch of inbred, disgusting pedophiles"!

I know some of you justify Trudy allowing those types of posts, saying she has no control over what people post on her Facebook page, but she definitely does. Facebook account holders have the option to turn on a review system before posts appear, stop certain people from posting or stop people from posting entirely. She says she doesn’t allow name calling either, but name calling is happening frequently, (as in the example above). The posts she allows is such a huge distraction away from the work she does.

I’ll be honest - that first comment isn’t completely off the rocker, given some of our experiences in the culture. The list of churches who dropped the ball in the Graber case is long…

I have looked everywhere for the second comment you are talking about and I must be missing it.

A couple of other commenters asked if anyone from the Amish and Mennonites are safe people, and in response, Trudy wrote a great comment about how to tell if someone is safe or not. She acknowledges that there are safe Amish and Mennonites.

I agree with that; although I will say that collectively, Amish and Mennonites do not have a good track record. In other words, the church system has a bad track record even though there are safe people within the system.

I sincerely hope that changes.

I do not understand why you continue to find things wrong with Trudy and social media when the bigger picture being discussed and exposed is vile child abuse in communities that claim holiness.

Why is that, Grace?

[anndet92]

Abuse happens everywhere, but how it is dealt with determines if a culture is safe or not.

This thing of constantly trying to tone police anyone who tries to exposure abuse for the purpose of protecting kids does not help to make the culture more safe.

Using Bible verses like “judge not, that you be not judged”, “forgive or you won’t be forgiven”, “love covers a multiple of sins,” etc does not make a culture more safe.

Immediately pulling out the story of the woman caught in adultery out of your back pocket and using it to try to shut people up does not make a culture more safe.

Telling people that talking about abuse is gossip does not protect children.

Believing that repentance looks like a well worded apology and a few crocodile tears is not protecting children.

These things are part of the broader systemic patterns in plain culture that make the culture unsafe for victims and survivors, while providing a safe place for perps.

[justme]

I do not understand why you continue to find things wrong with Trudy and social media when the bigger picture being discussed and exposed is vile child abuse in communities that claim holiness.

We knowingly or unknowingly argue about peripherals so that we don't have to address the main problem.

[Grace]

I’ll be honest - that first comment isn’t completely off the rocker, given some of our experiences in the culture. The list of churches who dropped the ball in the Graber case is long…

I have looked everywhere for the second comment you are talking about and I must be missing it.

A couple of other commenters asked if anyone from the Amish and Mennonites are safe people, and in response, Trudy wrote a great comment about how to tell if someone is safe or not. She acknowledges that there are safe Amish and Mennonites.

I agree with that; although I will say that collectively, Amish and Mennonites do not have a good track record. In other words, the church system has a bad track record even though there are safe people within the system.

I have lived in a Mennonite community all my life and was a member in three different conferences. With the exception of one case, the track record as far as sexual abuse was excellent. And in that one case, the ministers immediately reported it to the authorities.

To speak for ALL the Mennonite and Amish churches in the U.S and Canada and the thousands of members over a span of many years seems a bit presumptuous.

I do not understand why you continue to find things wrong with Trudy and social media when the bigger picture being discussed and exposed is vile child abuse in communities that claim holiness.

Why is that, Grace?

As I said, it is a distraction from the work she does. And if one doesn’t deal with the small things, can they be reliable to deal with the big things.
Glossing over small matters can reveal a deeper untrustworthiness

Luke 16:10 "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

[Pelerin]

I agree that whoever wrote the article was not being completely truthful with the “Amish” label, although it does appear like they grew up Amish and/or have Amish relatives.

What I meant by the “rot goes deep”, is that if you peel back the layers of this case, you’ll find that Amos Raber married a 16 year old girl to one of these guys. You’ll find that that the abuse victim was silenced by the church and the pastor, Ron Miller. You’ll find that when the abuse victim told trusted adults, one of them went on to do exactly the same things to her that she spoke up about. (This is how the brothers’ cases are connected).

The rot goes deep because so called spiritual leaders are not actually protecting the sheep. They are protecting wolves.

Fair enough then as a comment on the case. I'm not familiar with it at all apart from the article trying making it a reflection on the Amish.

[Soloist]

1 Cor 6: 2-8 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

How should this verse apply or not apply in this sort of situation?

[ohio jones]

I’ll be honest - that first comment isn’t completely off the rocker, given some of our experiences in the culture. The list of churches who dropped the ball in the Graber case is long…

I'd be surprised if all of the churches on the list actually had any connection with the Grabers or reason to report them. It looks like a shotgun listing of the conservative and semi-conservative Anabaptist churches in the area.

[anndet92]

I’ll be honest - that first comment isn’t completely off the rocker, given some of our experiences in the culture. The list of churches who dropped the ball in the Graber case is long…

I have looked everywhere for the second comment you are talking about and I must be missing it.

A couple of other commenters asked if anyone from the Amish and Mennonites are safe people, and in response, Trudy wrote a great comment about how to tell if someone is safe or not. She acknowledges that there are safe Amish and Mennonites.

I agree with that; although I will say that collectively, Amish and Mennonites do not have a good track record. In other words, the church system has a bad track record even though there are safe people within the system.

I have lived in a Mennonite community all my life and was a member in three different conferences. With the exception of one case, the track record as far as sexual abuse was excellent. And in that one case, the ministers immediately reported it to the authorities.

To speak for ALL the Mennonite and Amish churches in the U.S and Canada and the thousands of members over a span of many years seems a bit presumptuous.

I do not understand why you continue to find things wrong with Trudy and social media when the bigger picture being discussed and exposed is vile child abuse in communities that claim holiness.

Why is that, Grace?

As I said, it is a distraction from the work she does. And if one doesn’t deal with the small things, can they be reliable to deal with the big things.
Glossing over small matters can reveal a deeper untrustworthiness

Luke 16:10 "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

Im going to shoot straight with you for a bit, Grace. Please understand I’m not trying to be mean or rude - I’m just sad mostly. I’ve heard the sentiments you express many times in the last 10 years.

Have you ever talked with counselors or therapists that primarily work with Amish and Mennonite people?

Just because you haven’t heard of many cases doesn’t mean that abuse hasn’t happened. In fact, when you’re constantly nitpicking the people who are trying to protect children, you probably aren’t going to have survivors feel comfortable telling you their stories.

I would believe you more about some things being a distraction from the work Trudy does if you actually applied those same principles to Steve Stutzman and his social media account. I’ve yet to see you do that. Steve’s camp said far more vile things than I’ve seen in Trudy’s posts, and to my knowledge he has yet to distance himself from those comments/people.

I’m trying to understand why you feel the way you do.

[anndet92]

1 Cor 6: 2-8 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

How should this verse apply or not apply in this sort of situation?

I do not see abuse as a “small matter” between brothers in the church.

[Soloist]

1 Cor 6: 2-8 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

How should this verse apply or not apply in this sort of situation?

I do not see abuse as a “small matter” between brothers in the church.

I see small in this like a parent saying "can you guys not figure out the littlest things?"