What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[seinetsodumm]

Shouldn’t the Holy Spirit and the discernment He gives us give us a “sense” there’s something wrong with people that we are in close contact with? I remember years ago I was helping in a ministry at our church called “Stepping into Freedom” for overcoming addictions and any “stronghold” the brother or sister was dealing with. A couple started attending. This couple held a Home group Bible study at their house as we had several such Bible studies in homes. They started coming because of the wife’s struggle with returning to alcohol. But there was something about the husband, even though he was a Bible study leader that I attribute to the Holy Spirit telling me something’s wrong herewith him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold, this man ended up, murdering his wife. with him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold this man ended up, murdering his wife! He slowly was poisoning her to make it appear as sickness that took her life.
Point is, isn’t that what the Holy Spirit Himself do in us so that we may do a more thorough job of taking extra steps?
Granted I had nothing concrete on the man who sits in jail now but as soon as I found out it was no surprise to me but I remember wondering why leadership didn’t sense a problem.

This resonates. John 16:13 "Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth:"
I'm convinced the only truly effective way to approach these conversations is to pray for God's presence and direction. Man's processes will fail; their popularity will wax and wane. I support thoughtful policy & precautions. However, no matter how good the plan we create, it will fall short. Morality cannot be legislated. We need God's Spirit.

[Valerie]

Shouldn’t the Holy Spirit and the discernment He gives us give us a “sense” there’s something wrong with people that we are in close contact with? I remember years ago I was helping in a ministry at our church called “Stepping into Freedom” for overcoming addictions and any “stronghold” the brother or sister was dealing with. A couple started attending. This couple held a Home group Bible study at their house as we had several such Bible studies in homes. They started coming because of the wife’s struggle with returning to alcohol. But there was something about the husband, even though he was a Bible study leader that I attribute to the Holy Spirit telling me something’s wrong herewith him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold, this man ended up, murdering his wife. with him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold this man ended up, murdering his wife! He slowly was poisoning her to make it appear as sickness that took her life.
Point is, isn’t that what the Holy Spirit Himself do in us so that we may do a more thorough job of taking extra steps?
Granted I had nothing concrete on the man who sits in jail now but as soon as I found out it was no surprise to me but I remember wondering why leadership didn’t sense a problem.

This resonates. John 16:13 "Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth:"
I'm convinced the only truly effective way to approach these conversations is to pray for God's presence and direction. Man's processes will fail; their popularity will wax and wane. I support thoughtful policy & precautions. However, no matter how good the plan we create, it will fall short. Morality cannot be legislated. We need God's Spirit.

Which begs the question, how can a man involved in this kind of sin be trusted the Holy Spirit is guiding his teaching? I would think he would lack Gods anointing.

[JohnH]

Which begs the question, how can a man involved in this kind of sin be trusted the Holy Spirit is guiding his teaching? I would think he would lack Gods anointing.

Certainly so, but man's intellect can masquerade as Holy Spirit-led teaching, and likewise dark, malevolent spirits can disguise themselves as an "angel of light".

With that said, from the works of Wm McGrath I've read, there is a sinister thread throughout of them that seems to be devoid of what I would expect from a sincere Christ-follower. I felt the same way about the "Expect the Unexpected: Experience Haiti with Grandpa Harold"; it simply paints the protaganist in an unreasonably positive light, and conveniently never mentions his wife at all.

I have tried (and failed) to get book distributors to pull the book and stop distributing it.

[ohio jones]

The last OO service I attended only had exterior doors. Basically one big room. The outhouses by the horse stalls did have a door that had no glass window, but presumably nobody expects that. They were a “one stall” situation (the outhouses, not the horses).

Most OOA meet in a barn or basement. Whilst there might be soon rooms with doors in a barn or basement, they aren’t generally used for church purposes, and perhaps might even be locked, as another poster said he thought is a good idea.

You seem to be conflating churches (which are not physical entities and can have only metaphorical doors) with church buildings. Since the OOA generally do not have church buildings, they don't count when considering the presence or absence of doors in church buildings.

OO Brethren, OO Hutterites, OO Swiss/German Mennonites, OO Dutch/Russian Mennonites, all have meeting houses (church buildings).

That's correct. My comment hinges on the A in OOA.

I find it interesting that meetinghouses were an item of discussion in the Amish Dienerversammlungen of the mid/late 1800s. Apparently those who favored them did not remain with the Old Order.

Jonathan Yoder of Illinois, whose congregation had built a meetinghouse as early as 1854, replied he did not regard them unscriptural, and that it was much easier to maintain order during worship in a meetinghouse than in a home.

[ken_sylvania]

I have yet to see any church buildings, let alone a majority of plain churches, that have only exterior doors and no others.

The last OO service I attended only had exterior doors. Basically one big room. The outhouses by the horse stalls did have a door that had no glass window, but presumably nobody expects that. They were a “one stall” situation (the outhouses, not the horses).

Most OOA meet in a barn or basement. Whilst there might be soon rooms with doors in a barn or basement, they aren’t generally used for church purposes, and perhaps might even be locked, as another poster said he thought is a good idea.

You seem to be conflating churches (which are not physical entities and can have only metaphorical doors) with church buildings. Since the OOA generally do not have church buildings, they don't count when considering the presence or absence of doors in church buildings.

Are you suggesting that an old dance hall or skating rink can never be re-purposed for use as a church?

[JohnH]

That's correct. My comment hinges on the A in OOA.

That's why I said both OO in my post in addition to OOA, and my comments about OO were about OOs who have meetinghouses.

The King Amish of Hartville, Ohio fame had meetinghouses. The meetinghouse was finally torn down a few years ago after attempts to have some kind of historical society maintain the building failed. I guess there isn't much of an appreciation for history; it was one of the only (may have been the very last one) of Old Order Amish meetinghouses still standing.

[ohio jones]

Are you suggesting that an old dance hall or skating rink can never be re-purposed for use as a church?

I don't know why you would latch on to that idea. Of course they can be. The repurposing would probably include a few interior doors if there weren't some existing, but if not, one or two such cases wouldn't tip the balance very far toward the "majority of plain churches" that John was claiming.

[JohnH]

Are you suggesting that an old dance hall or skating rink can never be re-purposed for use as a church?

I don't know why you would latch on to that idea. Of course they can be. The repurposing would probably include a few interior doors if there weren't some existing, but if not, one or two such cases wouldn't tip the balance very far toward the "majority of plain churches" that John was claiming.

The majority of plain churches (and population) are Old Order Amish, so when one speaks of plain practices, OOA and OO practice can be assumed to be the dominant mode.

Hence why statements like “Plain churches need glass in their windows to prevent abuse” really aren’t accurate statements. A better statement would be “somewhat-plain churches that have most assimilated to evangelical styles of church buildings, worship, and service programming should adopt the same thins those evangelical groups are doing to prevent abuse”, such as glass in windows.

It’s sort of like thinking plain churches need parking lots for cars.
Most of them do not.

[ohio jones]

It’s sort of like thinking plain churches need parking lots for cars.
Most of them do not.

Again it depends what you mean by "churches" since the OOA are churches but do not have churches. To use more precise language, most of the meetinghouses used by plain congregations do need parking lots for cars. This includes the buildings that serve horse-and-buggy and car groups on alternating Sundays.

Parking lots do not stop predators, but it's still a good idea to lock the car doors. Especially during zucchini season.

[Ernie]

Parking lots do not stop predators, but it's still a good idea to lock the car doors. Especially during zucchini season.