Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[Valerie]

I've shared this before long ago. When I was first a seeker to Anabaptism, I went into a local Christian bookstore (which is gone now as many close up these days). I asked the man at the register if he had any books on Anabaptists. He said "Ma'am, I've owned this store for 40 years, and I never heard of Anabaptists". This store was exactly 1 hour 5 min. from the largest Anabaptist community in the world- Holmes County OH.
(And no he didn't carry the Amish bonnet novels of the day).

I think MrBrilliam is trying to stir hearts and maybe justify to himself why he may give up & go elsewhere like dome have.

[GaryK]

So are you saying the Anabaptists have been successful and righteously following Matthew 28's Great Commission?

I mean we can bash all the other churches we want. The numbers of members speak for themselves.

In my experience, Anabaptists are actually the only believers sharing the great commission! Christ said to teach ALL things he commanded in Matthew 28 - name one other church that does this! Go try and be part of a Baptist church where they explain away the teachings of Christ - as a Christian the Baptist church was not a place of kinship or close fellowship. Stop complaining and go give it a try. Christ said you will know them by their love one to another and not by their numbers.

I don't think that's fair.
I've known of very faithful Baptist people and churches.
Perhaps Joy on this forum is not reading this thread.
She comes from a very faithful Baptist Church.
She has been involved in spreading the Gospel all her adult life- she's been involved in prison ministry for decades. Her parents started a school to reach children, in South Carolina. She is one of 5 children. Her brother has spent decades with his family in Africa as missionaries. Joy and her sister denied the pleasures of life to reach the lost. It hurts to see attacks against Baptists (I am not one, but it was the Baptists that led my very worldly grandmother to Christ. She became a Christian late in life but truly converted, and her conversion led to get alcoholic brothers true conversion & his was a real testimony as well.

I understand where MrBrilliam is coming from as my former Amish friend shares his same frustration and he HAS spent decades spreading the Gospel and has a heart for the lost- he is so SICK of what he calls "churchianity" & says Holmes County is the most "mixed up Christianity" in the world.

But I do believe MrBrilliam, like others I've met like him, who desires his branch of Christianity to come out of slumber & get in the trenches with those in the highways & byways and actually care about souls more ghan appearing righteous, his words will fall on deaf ears.

I guess it frustrated me to see the rest of denominations painted with a broad brush. Until you actually visit every Baptist Church, you cannot possibly know so while you can accuse him of throwing stones, realize you're throwing them as if you know-

Joy if your reading this I hope I didn't embarrass you but to see your denomination knocked when I know people like you, and the family you recently introduced me to who are Baptist and were missionaries for what-50 years? You probably don't have time to read all this because you are serving the Lord in numerous ways and forum time is a luxury you rarely have time for.

It appears to me that you feel it's okay for mrbilliam to paint conservative Anabaptists with a broad brush. Am I correct?

Why don't you ask mrbilliam, like numerous ones of us have, if he is out doing what Joy and other individuals are doing?

[Josh]

Another place we aren’t generally found too much, is in coastal fishing towns. I guess that makes us an even bigger failure, given how large a role fishing had in the New Testament. I know of a few churches.

The Hutterite-esque people in Tasmania actually fished for income when they were there. Nowadays they're in Paraguay and I don't think the're on the coast, so I guess we can chalk this up to another "failure". There are Holdemans in Sequim, WA which used to be a fishing town... nowadays it seems to be a playground for rich people.

[Josh]

I've shared this before long ago. When I was first a seeker to Anabaptism, I went into a local Christian bookstore (which is gone now as many close up these days). I asked the man at the register if he had any books on Anabaptists. He said "Ma'am, I've owned this store for 40 years, and I never heard of Anabaptists". This store was exactly 1 hour 5 min. from the largest Anabaptist community in the world- Holmes County OH.
(And no he didn't carry the Amish bonnet novels of the day).

I think MrBrilliam is trying to stir hearts and maybe justify to himself why he may give up & go elsewhere like dome have.

And I feel leaving Anabaptism for the Eastern Orthodox is particularly egregious, when they are engaged in a violent, disgusting war and go so far as to bless their soldiers going into battle to kill and bless their "Caesar". One Russian acquaintance of mine told me of the phrase, "Caesaropapism". It is even more disgusting when one considers the soldiers on the other side do the exact same thing... bless their soldiers to go out in battle and kill the other soldiers. That church is so deeply in bed with the state that it would better be described as a being in a sleeping bag with the state in a 1-person tent.

Particularly when EOs are one of the most ethnic faiths there are in America.

[NedFlanders]

So are you saying the Anabaptists have been successful and righteously following Matthew 28's Great Commission?

I mean we can bash all the other churches we want. The numbers of members speak for themselves.

In my experience, Anabaptists are actually the only believers sharing the great commission! Christ said to teach ALL things he commanded in Matthew 28 - name one other church that does this! Go try and be part of a Baptist church where they explain away the teachings of Christ - as a Christian the Baptist church was not a place of kinship or close fellowship. Stop complaining and go give it a try. Christ said you will know them by their love one to another and not by their numbers.

I don't think that's fair.
I've known of very faithful Baptist people and churches.
Perhaps Joy on this forum is not reading this thread.
She comes from a very faithful Baptist Church.
She has been involved in spreading the Gospel all her adult life- she's been involved in prison ministry for decades. Her parents started a school to reach children, in South Carolina. She is one of 5 children. Her brother has spent decades with his family in Africa as missionaries. Joy and her sister denied the pleasures of life to reach the lost. It hurts to see attacks against Baptists (I am not one, but it was the Baptists that led my very worldly grandmother to Christ. She became a Christian late in life but truly converted, and her conversion led to get alcoholic brothers true conversion & his was a real testimony as well.

I understand where MrBrilliam is coming from as my former Amish friend shares his same frustration and he HAS spent decades spreading the Gospel and has a heart for the lost- he is so SICK of what he calls "churchianity" & says Holmes County is the most "mixed up Christianity" in the world.

But I do believe MrBrilliam, like others I've met like him, who desires his branch of Christianity to come out of slumber & get in the trenches with those in the highways & byways and actually care about souls more ghan appearing righteous, his words will fall on deaf ears.

I guess it frustrated me to see the rest of denominations painted with a broad brush. Until you actually visit every Baptist Church, you cannot possibly know so while you can accuse him of throwing stones, realize you're throwing them as if you know-

Fair isn't the point. I've just stated reality. Notice I've said "In my experience," so you are free to stop accusing others of what you are in fact doing.

[Soloist]

I guess it frustrated me to see the rest of denominations painted with a broad brush. Until you actually visit every Baptist Church, you cannot possibly know so while you can accuse him of throwing stones, realize you're throwing them as if you know-

I grew up in Baptist churches. I’m very familiar with it as well as Awanas which is a Baptist program through and through.

There certainly are people in the Baptists that are following Jesus faithfully, but the established doctrine is heresy.
When the Anabaptists are painted with a broad brush and every example is dismissed out of hand and the individual isn’t actually answering any questions… it kind of makes sense that generalizations are going to be used to respond.
There is are several distinct reasons why I’m not in Baptists circles still or non-denominational groups. There are several reasons why I’m not in SDA, JW, EO, Catholic, Mormons and so on. I don’t apologize for branding the main teaching as heretical although I accept there may be faithful there.
I also am not in Eastern Mennonite, Amish or old order for reasons too.

It’s very logical to defend our faith and say the groups we (seekers left) are heretical…

Joy for all of my knowledge is faithful and I know nothing about her specific Baptist church nor do I judge her for being Baptist. I will disagree with her if she goes posting things contrary to sound teaching just as I have with others.
I don’t see her attacking our doctrines though or our beliefs.

[barnhart]

I appreciate the criticism offered of Anabaptists on this thread because a lot of it is true, on average we have spent too much time and energy on who is wearing flipflops, or similar issues, and not enough on being salt and light, finding and feeding sheep.

However I have reservations about adopting the pragmatism offered as justification for this critique. The pursuit of "what works" is dangerous at best and often leads to calamity. The watered down mainline churches with the difficult doctrine stripped out didn't get that way because they wanted to worship idols instead of Jesus, it's the landing point of a pragmatic quest for relevance, a pursuit of what works and avoiding driving people away. The curious condition of the evangelical church with splintering flocks, weary pastors and a large demographic who identify but rarely attend is similarly the result of bringing in without making disciples. A significant portion of the charismatic type church, which has grown admirably in the last 100 years, is reverting to a sort of christianized paganism where the gospel is effectively defined as you getting the fleshly things you want (wealth, relationships, power, happiness) by performing religious ritual.

I see several problems with this critique of pragmatism. First, it presumes to know the mind of God for the church. God will build and grow his church, but he will also discipline, cleanse and purify it. We can't know exactly what he is doing right now. Second, it presumes to know how to grow the church, i.e. what metrics to use to measure growth. This is like the children of Israel trying to storm the promised land after God turned them back into the desert. Just because a promised land exists does not mean we are to seize it by any means or as soon as possible. This calls for wisdom and faithfulness.

[Valerie]

I've shared this before long ago. When I was first a seeker to Anabaptism, I went into a local Christian bookstore (which is gone now as many close up these days). I asked the man at the register if he had any books on Anabaptists. He said "Ma'am, I've owned this store for 40 years, and I never heard of Anabaptists". This store was exactly 1 hour 5 min. from the largest Anabaptist community in the world- Holmes County OH.
(And no he didn't carry the Amish bonnet novels of the day).

I think MrBrilliam is trying to stir hearts and maybe justify to himself why he may give up & go elsewhere like dome have.

And I feel leaving Anabaptism for the Eastern Orthodox is particularly egregious, when they are engaged in a violent, disgusting war and go so far as to bless their soldiers going into battle to kill and bless their "Caesar". One Russian acquaintance of mine told me of the phrase, "Caesaropapism". It is even more disgusting when one considers the soldiers on the other side do the exact same thing... bless their soldiers to go out in battle and kill the other soldiers. That church is so deeply in bed with the state that it would better be described as a being in a sleeping bag with the state in a 1-person tent.

Particularly when EOs are one of the most ethnic faiths there are in America.

Well I am not EO, but they have the faith & interpretations of original Apostles and those who followed. If some have gone astray, look in your own camp- my former Amish friend updates me on bishops arrested for molestations, suicides, incest bring discovered, etc There is much "cover up". No EO doesn't interpret loving your enemies the same way as others when it comes to protecting your own land, thank the Lord they had a "free," land to flee to because America fought for it. So it can work to Anabaptists advantage.

[GaryK]

I appreciate the criticism offered of Anabaptists on this thread because a lot of it is true, on average we have spent too much time and energy on who is wearing flipflops, or similar issues, and not enough on being salt and light, finding and feeding sheep.

However I have reservations about adopting the pragmatism offered as justification for this critique. The pursuit of "what works" is dangerous at best and often leads to calamity. The watered down mainline churches with the difficult doctrine stripped out didn't get that way because they wanted to worship idols instead of Jesus, it's the landing point of a pragmatic quest for relevance, a pursuit of what works and avoiding driving people away. The curious condition of the evangelical church with splintering flocks, weary pastors and a large demographic who identify but rarely attend is similarly the result of bringing in without making disciples. A significant portion of the charismatic type church, which has grown admirably in the last 100 years, is reverting to a sort of christianized paganism where the gospel is effectively defined as you getting the fleshly things you want (wealth, relationships, power, happiness) by performing religious ritual.

I see several problems with this critique of pragmatism. First, it presumes to know the mind of God for the church. God will build and grow his church, but he will also discipline, cleanse and purify it. We can't know exactly what he is doing right now. Second, it presumes to know how to grow the church, i.e. what metrics to use to measure growth. This is like the children of Israel trying to storm the promised land after God turned them back into the desert. Just because a promised land exists does not mean we are to seize it by any means or as soon as possible. This calls for wisdom and faithfulness.

Well said. I'm convinced the best way to counter what is wrong with Anabaptist outreach is to humbly be an example of how to do better.

[Valerie]

In my experience, Anabaptists are actually the only believers sharing the great commission! Christ said to teach ALL things he commanded in Matthew 28 - name one other church that does this! Go try and be part of a Baptist church where they explain away the teachings of Christ - as a Christian the Baptist church was not a place of kinship or close fellowship. Stop complaining and go give it a try. Christ said you will know them by their love one to another and not by their numbers.

I don't think that's fair.
I've known of very faithful Baptist people and churches.
Perhaps Joy on this forum is not reading this thread.
She comes from a very faithful Baptist Church.
She has been involved in spreading the Gospel all her adult life- she's been involved in prison ministry for decades. Her parents started a school to reach children, in South Carolina. She is one of 5 children. Her brother has spent decades with his family in Africa as missionaries. Joy and her sister denied the pleasures of life to reach the lost. It hurts to see attacks against Baptists (I am not one, but it was the Baptists that led my very worldly grandmother to Christ. She became a Christian late in life but truly converted, and her conversion led to get alcoholic brothers true conversion & his was a real testimony as well.

I understand where MrBrilliam is coming from as my former Amish friend shares his same frustration and he HAS spent decades spreading the Gospel and has a heart for the lost- he is so SICK of what he calls "churchianity" & says Holmes County is the most "mixed up Christianity" in the world.

But I do believe MrBrilliam, like others I've met like him, who desires his branch of Christianity to come out of slumber & get in the trenches with those in the highways & byways and actually care about souls more ghan appearing righteous, his words will fall on deaf ears.

I guess it frustrated me to see the rest of denominations painted with a broad brush. Until you actually visit every Baptist Church, you cannot possibly know so while you can accuse him of throwing stones, realize you're throwing them as if you know-

Fair isn't the point. I've just stated reality. Notice I've said "In my experience," so you are free to stop accusing others of what you are in fact doing.

Fair enough but there are thousands of Baptist congregations and so why attack them based on your experience? By the way, I have defended Anabaptists to their critics for 17 years and I do share what I glean from them. Even if I ended up elsewhere, I know they want you to be in full agreement to join, which I cannot be