Watercolor painting and artistic expression

[JohnH]

A large part of the elitism in "fine art" is a certain disdain for "folk art" or whatever it is the masses enjoy. This is another thing that plain Anabaptism finds disagreeable, but those who are becoming less plain will tend to embrace.

When one defines one's self by how they are not proletarian, provincial, subaltern, plebeian - essentially, "lower", then one has to find things to prove that one is "higher", such as "appreciation for fine art". The transitioning plain Anabaptist falls into the same behaviour, defining himself by how he is better education and appreciates finer things, unlike that silly plainer Anabaptist over there who just refuses to get with the times and the program, and insists on continuing to do his archaic quilting, drive his horse and buggy, and go out into his phone shack to use his flip phone. The transitioning plain Anabaptist pats himself on the back about how much "higher" he is as he has perhaps embraced cars, or maybe even gone beyond the car (which is still a bit provincial) and instead lives in a world-class city and uses the subway.

This kind of elitism is almost the exact opposite of the core of plain Anabaptism, and is about as useful in the life of the Christian as thinking that it's somehow better to dine at Le Benardin versus Burger King. Plain Anabaptists who are not transitioning away from plain Anabaptism would consider dining at Le Benardin to be quite questionable for the Christian, but would have no problem with stopping in to get a Whopper.

[Ernie]

Plenty of Anabaptists as well as many others over the millenniums, have tried to make the case that investing in fine arts is depriving the poor of their needs. As Anabaptists become wealthier, many lose this sensitivity. But the majority of Plain Anabaptists still keep this value system alive.

More thoughts.

Plain Anabaptists as a whole are known for giving and sharing. Yes, there is a percentage who are stingy and self-serving, but if that characterizes the majority in a community, it begins the process of implosion.

There are many Plain Anabaptists who object to fine art that has no "useful purpose" because it is considered robbing the poor. For them it doesn't have anything to do with modernity. It is a historical belief.

Regarding Judas...
"But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief."

Mary was not doing fine art per say, but she was being extravagant in her devotion to Jesus.

Now if someone today were to buy $60K worth of perfume, and anoint the feet of some homeless people in the name of Jesus, I expect some Plain Anabaptists would object and think that it was wasteful, and that it could have been used to meet the needs of the poor. And for those who didn't care about the poor, their objections would be the same as Judas's. But there are other Plain Anabaptists who do truly care about the poor and their objection would be worth considering, IMO, but at the same time these Anabaptists should consider that Jesus says that whatever you do for the least of these, you have done it unto me.

If someone were to buy a $60K stained glass window to help people think about God, again, there would be the same two kinds of Plain Anabaptists. And again, those who do really care about the poor should have their objections considered. I don't know that we have a scriptural justification for stained glass windows like we have for anointing the feet of the least of these. In fact, when the disciples wanted to point out the architecture of the temple, we don't have record of Jesus admiring the architecture with them but rather predicted its destruction.
Can you imagine touring a cathedral and as the tour guide is remarking on all the splendid architecture, someone in the crowd says, "Yeah, but this is all going to be burnt up before long." What would our response be to such a killjoy?

[joshuabgood]

"Yeah, but this is all going to be burnt up before long." What would our response be to such a killjoy?

Some would say that represents a decidedly flawed interpretation of the Oliviet sermon and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the traditon of Hebrew apocalyptic literature in favor of a uniquely 20th century eschatology that is doom and gloom and premised on escape from the world in a helicopter. And a rather dim eschatology that seems to reject the idea that the kingdom.of God is coming to earth as in heaven.

And Jesus did say with regard to the investment in sacrifice for worship, the poor you always have with you. The best exegesis of that in my judgement is that there is a place for extravagance in behalf of worship.

As one who has toured some cathedrals, Notre Dame, Koln, Grossmunster, St Marcos, St Peter's etc - I think the beauty inspires one to appreciate the divine.

[JohnH]

"Yeah, but this is all going to be burnt up before long." What would our response be to such a killjoy?

Some would say that represents a decidedly flawed interpretation of the Oliviet sermon and demonstrates a misunderstanding of the traditon of Hebrew apocalyptic literature in favor of a uniquely 20th century eschatology that is doom and gloom and premised on escape from the world in a helicopter. And a rather dim eschatology that seems to reject the idea that the kingdom.of God is coming to earth as in heaven.

And Jesus did say with regard to the investment in sacrifice for worship, the poor you always have with you. The best exegesis of that in my judgement is that there is a place for extravagance in behalf of worship.

As one who has toured some cathedrals, Notre Dame, Koln, Grossmunster, St Marcos, St Peter's etc - I think the beauty inspires one to appreciate the divine.

Note that the idea of having fancy churches is antithetical to plain Anabaptism, and has been so from the beginning.

One can certainly make a case for fancy churches, but then one is no longer plain, and not a plain Anabaptist either. The main reason I am a plain Anabaptist is not out of a desire to be plain, but because the fancy denominations seem to be lacking in other things, to the point I can't find a single one that seems to be following rather plain edicts I see in the New Testament.

Therefore, I conclude there is an inextricable link between fancy Christianity and abandoning other things in the New Testament (like nonresistance).

[Bootstrap]

And Jesus did say with regard to the investment in sacrifice for worship, the poor you always have with you. The best exegesis of that in my judgement is that there is a place for extravagance in behalf of worship.

As one who has toured some cathedrals, Notre Dame, Koln, Grossmunster, St Marcos, St Peter's etc - I think the beauty inspires one to appreciate the divine.

Note that the idea of having fancy churches is antithetical to plain Anabaptism, and has been so from the beginning.

Our church is simple.

But I can really get caught up in the beauty of these cathedrals, and I think that also is of God. Beauty and creativity are good things, I don't think we need to treat them as evil or bad.

Some people may not appreciate art or get it. That's fine. And some groups or people may decide that is not part of the lifestyle they care called to. That's fine. But I would be very reluctant to judge people because of their beauty and creativity.

I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom (ḥokmâ), with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills, to make artistic designs…

[Bootstrap]

But the point I have been trying to make recently is that the "poor" don't have much time, money, or resources for fine art. They don't even have the cultural impetus to develop a taste for fine art.

I'm not sure that's true.

Poor communities have often produced art—folk songs, storytelling, dance, weaving, pottery, carving, murals, poetry, architecture, religious iconography, and music. Some of the world’s richest artistic traditions come from people who had very little materially. Art is often one of the ways communities preserve identity, express hope, worship God, mourn, celebrate, and tell their stories.

God filled Bezalel and Oholiab with wisdom to create beauty for the Tabernacle, and “wise-hearted” women spun fine textiles (Exodus 35). These were people who had just left slavery in Egypt. I don't think they were wealthy. But they were called by God to produce this art.

[Jazman]

As an artist, I'm reading through this with great interest (The various opinions & thoughts create quite the mosaic...)
Ernie, I think your descriptions are fairly accurate, but as I read through the above I was struck by these words / phrases...
very practical
[...]efficiency. Producing art is not very efficient.
[...]simplicity and utilitarian character.
[...]the quilt serves a useful purpose.

Again I think you're accurate, but there's a modernist and/or disenchanted vibe in that, isn't there? (Are we not the children / cousins of the Protestant ethos, from which arose modernism?)

Perhaps.

But the point I have been trying to make recently is that the "poor" don't have much time, money, or resources for fine art. They don't even have the cultural impetus to develop a taste for fine art.
Survival takes priority.
There are even Anabaptists who cannot afford Shenandoah Music Camp.

Plenty of Anabaptists as well as many others over the millenniums, have tried to make the case that investing in fine arts is depriving the poor of their needs. As Anabaptists become wealthier, many lose this sensitivity. But the majority of Plain Anabaptists still keep this value system alive.

So yes, modernity has maybe shifted the arguments a bit, but the values are still alive and well in many communities.

I appreciate this insight; I think I get your point. But to this; "There are even Anabaptists who cannot afford Shenandoah Music Camp." Maybe we need to expand our ideas about mutual aid? I think the music camps are important enough for the propagation of community and hymn/choral music learning, expressing and worshipping that somehow churches or the org should do what it takes to make it affordable for Anyone who wants to go. I also feel an expanded vision of mutual aid should be applicable in other areas as well, but I realize it's an especially hard road as even plain Anabaptists have often adopted the american way... "you're on your own unless something really really! awful happens to you... otherwise..."

[barnhart]

As a general principle, I think Anabaptists are at the top of our game when we we face new technology and culture by adapting it to our values rather than refusing all change. Sunday school, four-part harmony, winter Bible school, weekly/midweek meetings, woodcraft etc... are all adapted in America and to my eye have served us well.

Recorded music and printed literature with illustrations seem to me to have about as great an impact on culture as cars or electricity. Shenandoah music camp seems like an effort to inspire and shape Anabaptist music into the future. If your goal is to freeze musical expression for 500 or 1,500 years, it's not your thing. But if you have an eye to adapt and create, maybe it is.

[the-real-steve]

I can't see how painting and such is any different than us "wordsmiths" that write poetry or songwriting. To hold one above the other is just nonsense in my book.

My bipolar comes with a few side conditions, one being hypergraphia, or the impulse to write. I'd go nuts if I couldn't write.