Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Sudsy

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Sudsy »

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:49 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:16 pm
When people told the story of the flood covering the earth, why could this not be only that part of the world they lived in. They had no means of knowing what the whole earth was in that time. Why would God wipe out all mankind just because those who could hear Noah's preaching, ignored him ? Questions like that, along with what science has learned about the earth, I think still allows for a great flood. I don't think it requires belief in a global flood. YMMV.
But why would an ark be needed when just migration on land would be much simpler?
Because one might fall off the end of the earth ? :)
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ohio jones

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by ohio jones »

Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:10 pm
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:49 pm But why would an ark be needed when just migration on land would be much simpler?
Because one might fall off the end of the earth ? :)
Due to the principles of hydrogeology, a flood on a flat earth would require perimeter containment with limited aqueous permeability, which in turn restricts the opportunity of pedestrians to perambulate beyond their appointed bounds.
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Sudsy

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Sudsy »

ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:30 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:10 pm
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:49 pm But why would an ark be needed when just migration on land would be much simpler?
Because one might fall off the end of the earth ? :)
Due to the principles of hydrogeology, a flood on a flat earth would require perimeter containment with limited aqueous permeability, which in turn restricts the opportunity of pedestrians to perambulate beyond their appointed bounds.
And huge eavetroughs. :?
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Wayne in Maine

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:30 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:10 pm
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:49 pm But why would an ark be needed when just migration on land would be much simpler?
Because one might fall off the end of the earth ? :)
Due to the principles of hydrogeology, a flood on a flat earth would require perimeter containment with limited aqueous permeability, which in turn restricts the opportunity of pedestrians to perambulate beyond their appointed bounds.
I did a mathematical analysis of gravitational attraction of the Genesis flat earth (assuming standard 9.3 m/sec ^2 at the center of the disk). It was quite interesting to note the gravitational gradient as one traversed to the edge - it was up hill all the way! Of course I did not account for the almost infinite mass of water above the firmament or below the vault of the earth, which would be crushing indeed! (I assumed they would balance out).
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Soloist

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Soloist »

Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:17 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:30 pm
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:10 pm

Because one might fall off the end of the earth ? :)
Due to the principles of hydrogeology, a flood on a flat earth would require perimeter containment with limited aqueous permeability, which in turn restricts the opportunity of pedestrians to perambulate beyond their appointed bounds.
I did a mathematical analysis of gravitational attraction of the Genesis flat earth (assuming standard 9.3 m/sec ^2 at the center of the disk). It was quite interesting to note the gravitational gradient as one traversed to the edge - it was up hill all the way! Of course I did not account for the almost infinite mass of water above the firmament or below the vault of the earth, which would be crushing indeed! (I assumed they would balance out).
Hate to break it to you, but people who believe in flat earth also don't believe in gravity. They believe in buoyancy and density. No joke...
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Wayne in Maine

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:28 pm
Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:17 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:30 pm
Due to the principles of hydrogeology, a flood on a flat earth would require perimeter containment with limited aqueous permeability, which in turn restricts the opportunity of pedestrians to perambulate beyond their appointed bounds.
I did a mathematical analysis of gravitational attraction of the Genesis flat earth (assuming standard 9.3 m/sec ^2 at the center of the disk). It was quite interesting to note the gravitational gradient as one traversed to the edge - it was up hill all the way! Of course I did not account for the almost infinite mass of water above the firmament or below the vault of the earth, which would be crushing indeed! (I assumed they would balance out).
Hate to break it to you, but people who believe in flat earth also don't believe in gravity. They believe in buoyancy and density. No joke...
How do you describe the cosmos according to what the author of Genesis writes? It sure sounds flat to me, with a solid dome over it separating the waters below from the waters above!

This is the same dome with the “flood gates of the sky” that were opened and that flooded the entire flat earth (well, the “fountains of the great deep” contributed) from edge to edge 4000 or so years ago.
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Soloist

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Soloist »

Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:37 pm
How do you describe the cosmos according to what the author of Genesis writes? It sure sounds flat to me, with a solid dome over it separating the waters below from the waters above!

This is the same dome with the “flood gates of the sky” that were opened and that flooded the entire flat earth (well, the “fountains of the great deep” contributed) from edge to edge 4000 or so years ago.
How would you translate God saying "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." into your view of the local flood?

How do you explain talking rocks?
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Wayne in Maine

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:14 pm
Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:37 pm
How do you describe the cosmos according to what the author of Genesis writes? It sure sounds flat to me, with a solid dome over it separating the waters below from the waters above!

This is the same dome with the “flood gates of the sky” that were opened and that flooded the entire flat earth (well, the “fountains of the great deep” contributed) from edge to edge 4000 or so years ago.
How would you translate God saying "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." into your view of the local flood?

How do you explain talking rocks?
You did not answer my question. I answered your questions directly, now it is time for you to answer questions directly.
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Soloist

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by Soloist »

Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:22 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:14 pm
Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:37 pm
How do you describe the cosmos according to what the author of Genesis writes? It sure sounds flat to me, with a solid dome over it separating the waters below from the waters above!

This is the same dome with the “flood gates of the sky” that were opened and that flooded the entire flat earth (well, the “fountains of the great deep” contributed) from edge to edge 4000 or so years ago.
How would you translate God saying "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." into your view of the local flood?

How do you explain talking rocks?
You did not answer my question. I answered your questions directly, now it is time for you to answer questions directly.

Actually, you are very selective in what you answer and just decide not to answer a question you don't want to openly express.

I believe there are several different heavens that use the same word and are based on context. Your turn.
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silentreader

Re: Anabaptist perspective of the Creation narrative?

Post by silentreader »

Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:22 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:14 pm
Wayne in Maine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:37 pm
How do you describe the cosmos according to what the author of Genesis writes? It sure sounds flat to me, with a solid dome over it separating the waters below from the waters above!

This is the same dome with the “flood gates of the sky” that were opened and that flooded the entire flat earth (well, the “fountains of the great deep” contributed) from edge to edge 4000 or so years ago.
How would you translate God saying "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." into your view of the local flood?

How do you explain talking rocks?
You did not answer my question. I answered your questions directly, now it is time for you to answer questions directly.
It is unfortunate that the English translators continued the pagan and early Hebrew belief in a solid dome by transliterating the Latin firmamentum into the word "firmament". I don't know why they did that but the Septuagint's stereoma would also point to something that is probably solid.
The Hebrew raqiya, on the other hand, does not need to be something solid, but could be translated "expanse", as some modern translations do. This translation could then very well be considered as a "space" if one were biased in that direction. So without a doubt the idea of a "bowl" or a "dome" was very common, but I guess I am not convinced that is what the writer intended.
But maybe the ancients knew something that we didn't because it is probably only in relatively modern times that we came to understand the perils of angles of re-entry for space vehicles. So in one sense the "bowl" or "dome", even though not impermeable, is there, and gives us safety from most debris coming from outside.
I'm not sure exactly what is being referred to here as the cosmos, but note that according to the narrative, sun, moon and stars were not created till several days after the "bowl". I'm not sure where we consider them to have been placed if we follow the "bowl" scenario. On the other hand, if we use the Hebrew word and translate it as expanse or something similar, then we can turn to numerous OT passages where God is said to have "stretched out" the stars and the heavens. That, I believe, would put the cosmos where it belongs.
And if we take the idea of God "stretching out" the stars and heavens one step further, perhaps it is saying that the universe is expanding.
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