What makes for a good courtship?

[JohnH]

In the counseling world there are something called, "No Hard Feelings Clauses." These basically indicate that both parties agree prior that if for whatever reason, including something like "I just don't feel comfortable moving forward," or "It just doesn't feel like a good fit," folks want to step away from the relationship both of them bless the other in such a move. Talking about this right away can perhaps reduce the pressure that comes in some circles to "marry" the first person you date. Or the pressure that that is some how the best. I would recommend sitting down and talking with both of them about that. It is ok if it doesn't work out.

This sure is the opposite of those who believe that God never intends for young people to experience a breakup.

This was the essence of the whole courtship movement, which is why cringe whenever I hear the term.

[JohnH]

In the counseling world there are something called, "No Hard Feelings Clauses." These basically indicate that both parties agree prior that if for whatever reason, including something like "I just don't feel comfortable moving forward," or "It just doesn't feel like a good fit," folks want to step away from the relationship both of them bless the other in such a move. Talking about this right away can perhaps reduce the pressure that comes in some circles to "marry" the first person you date. Or the pressure that that is some how the best. I would recommend sitting down and talking with both of them about that. It is ok if it doesn't work out.

This sure is the opposite of those who believe that God never intends for young people to experience a breakup.

Which also makes it extremely important that courtship is a period without physical contact, let alone immoral behavior, which would make a breakup unnecessarily painful and the relationship itself regrettable. Breaking off dating, if the parties have acted completely with honor and respect, does not need to be so.

Avoiding immoral behaviour and improper physical contact is also very good for single people and married people.

However I think most the emotional pain doesn’t go away because of that. I had far more emotional pain from a broken off courtship (I broke it off because I felt I wasn’t a Christian, the other girl was, and eventually I felt I needed to be upfront about that) than I did from various worldly type of relationships with cohabiting etc.

So the idea it will avoid pain or lessen it is not necessarily the case. To lessen pain, it would make sense for young people to casually date different people with very low expectations, like plain people used to, and some still do: go out for an ice cream date once. Then find out if a second one happens.

[JohnH]

In the counseling world there are something called, "No Hard Feelings Clauses." These basically indicate that both parties agree prior that if for whatever reason, including something like "I just don't feel comfortable moving forward," or "It just doesn't feel like a good fit," folks want to step away from the relationship both of them bless the other in such a move. Talking about this right away can perhaps reduce the pressure that comes in some circles to "marry" the first person you date. Or the pressure that that is some how the best. I would recommend sitting down and talking with both of them about that. It is ok if it doesn't work out.

Back in the 50s, the stories I hear from conservative Mennonite/A-M churches is this is how it was. A young man might go and get ice cream cones with half a dozen girls. Sometimes just once, maybe twice. No expectation of commitment or ongoing interest. Emotional entanglements were kept low.

Emotional entanglement was reserved for once a couple was engaged.

[eccentric_rambler]

Back in the 50s, the stories I hear from conservative Mennonite/A-M churches is this is how it was. A young man might go and get ice cream cones with half a dozen girls. Sometimes just once, maybe twice. No expectation of commitment or ongoing interest. Emotional entanglements were kept low.

Emotional entanglement was reserved for once a couple was engaged.

Perhaps I don't understand the issues with that practice, but I think it would be good if it returned. Current practice strikes me as an engagement followed by a formal betrothal. With minimal youth activities giving young people little way of getting to know each other, stepping into that level of commitment seems ludicrous to me.

Related, and more closely related to the question. More teaching should be given countering the "one true match" nonsense that too many, and particularly too many women, believe. There are many people a person could choose to marry while still being inside of God's will.

[JohnH]

Back in the 50s, the stories I hear from conservative Mennonite/A-M churches is this is how it was. A young man might go and get ice cream cones with half a dozen girls. Sometimes just once, maybe twice. No expectation of commitment or ongoing interest. Emotional entanglements were kept low.

Emotional entanglement was reserved for once a couple was engaged.

Perhaps I don't understand the issues with that practice, but I think it would be good if it returned. Current practice strikes me as an engagement followed by a formal betrothal. With minimal youth activities giving young people little way of getting to know each other, stepping into that level of commitment seems ludicrous to me.

Related, and more closely related to the question. More teaching should be given countering the "one true match" nonsense that too many, and particularly too many women, believe. There are many people a person could choose to marry while still being inside of God's will.

I think the “courtship” stuff came in via Bill Gothard and then also got popular in Charity circles that were influenced by homeschooling. The progenitors of it (Josh Harris specifically) denounced it and are also divorced now. So there’s that.

An alternative culture is what ACs and Holdemans do which is completely different yet also works. And yet another worthwhile culture is Brethren; perhaps one of them will write here about how dating, engagement, and marriage happen in their circles.

[mike]

I would appreciate if posts in this thread would at least address the questions in the original post before going on to associated topics. This thread isn't about airing all the problems you think courtship, or whatever you call the process or relationship, might have. The topic is things that make for a good courtship. Share your ideas.

[mike]

Back in the 50s, the stories I hear from conservative Mennonite/A-M churches is this is how it was. A young man might go and get ice cream cones with half a dozen girls. Sometimes just once, maybe twice. No expectation of commitment or ongoing interest. Emotional entanglements were kept low.

Emotional entanglement was reserved for once a couple was engaged.

Perhaps I don't understand the issues with that practice, but I think it would be good if it returned. Current practice strikes me as an engagement followed by a formal betrothal. With minimal youth activities giving young people little way of getting to know each other, stepping into that level of commitment seems ludicrous to me.

Related, and more closely related to the question. More teaching should be given countering the "one true match" nonsense that too many, and particularly too many women, believe. There are many people a person could choose to marry while still being inside of God's will.

I think the “courtship” stuff came in via Bill Gothard and then also got popular in Charity circles that were influenced by homeschooling. The progenitors of it (Josh Harris specifically) denounced it and are also divorced now. So there’s that.

An alternative culture is what ACs and Holdemans do which is completely different yet also works. And yet another worthwhile culture is Brethren; perhaps one of them will write here about how dating, engagement, and marriage happen in their circles.

I hope they do it in a new thread. I'd like this one to be focused on the questions I asked, please.

[JohnH]

My daughter is starting up a relationship with a young man, so the topic is on my mind. She's the second of our children to do so, but it lands a little differently when it's a daughter. We plan to talk with them soon to give some advice and give our vision for their relationship.

What would you say if you were in this position? What's your best advice?

What are the typical customs in your church / his?

(I was under the impression Hope / Pilgrim hadn’t adopted the “courtship” ideas.)

[mike]

What are great activities for a dating couple?

[mike]

My daughter is starting up a relationship with a young man, so the topic is on my mind. She's the second of our children to do so, but it lands a little differently when it's a daughter. We plan to talk with them soon to give some advice and give our vision for their relationship.

What would you say if you were in this position? What's your best advice?

What are the typical customs in your church / his?

(I was under the impression Hope / Pilgrim hadn’t adopted the “courtship” ideas.)

In our circles, dating and courtship are synonymous.