Instruction Class/Catechism

[Ernie]

One good thing about Keystone is that children of members and others go through the same process.

This is normal in conservative Anabaptist churches.

It is not in more conservative settings. Seekers basically get more “thorough” instruction.

I think you are going to need to provide some firm data and not make generalizations based on a few anecdotes.

[mike]

This is normal in conservative Anabaptist churches.

It is not in more conservative settings. Seekers basically get more “thorough” instruction.

I think you are going to need to provide some firm data and not make generalizations based on a few anecdotes.

Yes, please. Although I would like if the discussion didn't get too sidetracked from the questions and topics I brought up in the OP.

[mike]

What does everyone think about the necessity and benefits of a lengthy (months long) period of instruction prior to baptism? What is the purpose of the instruction? Does it always accomplish its purpose? How should it be done in order to be effective? Could it also be done after baptism? In light of the fact that it is absent in scripture, is there a basis for it other than the practice of the early church (see Stephen's discussion)? If so, why limit it to six months when apparently it was as much as two years in the early church?

The New Testament precedent is to baptize the same day as a person becomes committed to the Lord. I don't know of any Plain Anabaptists who have this practice, other than maybe a few small, barely Anabaptist fellowships.
(Even if people believe in baptism for the remission of sins, they still normally want to wait at least a few days until all the relatives can be present for the baptism.)

I support baptizing a person whenever they are ready, whether that be the same day or three years later. My thought is that we should not baptize someone before they are ready, but if a person is ready, then go ahead as soon as it is suitable. I don't mind waiting a few days or weeks until family members and friends can be present. I don't believe that a person is lost until they are baptized.

I advocate for three-year-long catechism/discipleship classes with baptism taking place at the beginning, mid-course, or at the end -- whenever the person is ready.

At our church we have Discovery Classes that cycle about every 6 months. (We got this term from Allen Roth.)
People can jump in anytime along the way and there is no expectation that they will get baptized at the end.
We have agnostics, nones, Muslims, people coming to God, people who are almost believers, Evangelicals, Catholics, and others attending our Discovery Classes. It makes for some really interesting discussions.
Once a person is baptized, instruction continues. We have not yet developed a full 3-year curriculum.

This all sounds good to me. As you know, the practice I was used to prior to being a member of a conference conservative Mennonite church was to baptize new believers as soon as convenient.

[Soloist]

I probably represent one of the more conservatives remaining on here from the seeker camp, our western fellowship at the time we went through instruction class was very similar to a nationwide group.

Instruction class felt like it took forever, but that was mostly just because of scheduling issues. The Mennonite youth also went through instruction class, but it was more of a we do this because.
Like they already knew the answers while we were learning it.

What I don’t like is that it’s really set around the dogma of conservative or whichever branch of Mennonite you’re in. I don’t really feel like it does that well for a new Christian. It’s more like a doctrine class before you become a member.
I’ve seen similar at some Baptist churches.
I would envision an accountability group for new Christians would probably do a better job then a doctrine class.

[cmbl]

I went through the same instruction class as the youth from my church (Pilgrim Conference). It was several months long, if I recall correctly.

I had actually waited a bit after the ministry started mentioning membership to me. Then I waited a bit longer after going thru the class, because of the re-cropping up of some issues in my life.

At one point it seemed a bit weird that I would give/receive the Holy Kiss when visiting other churches but not my own. That being said, I don't have any negative thoughts about things "taking too long."

Thomas van Imbroich, an early Anabaptist in the (lower?) Rhine river region, wrote in his confession that they had instruction before baptism according to Jesus' words "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you," from which we see that there is to be instruction before and after baptism.

So (at least some) early Anabaptists believed such instruction was following the Biblical pattern. IIRC, the Didache was only rediscovered in the 1800s. But it is interesting to note the parallel between early church instruction and Anabaptist groups.

[Neto]

My wife & I transferred our memberships from other groups, and had already been supported as mission workers by the congregation for some time (possibly as long as around 12 years). We did not go through an instruction class, just personal interviews. (We were also sort of 'fast tracked' through the proving membership phase, because we were returning to the foreign mission work soon.)

I do think that there are good reasons for doing the classes first. For one thing, some people who grew up in the Amish setting come to our congregation because they are planning to get married, and simply know that they need to be in a church someplace. Some of these discover, while in the classes, they they have never made a personal decision to become a follower of Christ. (One of our pastors and his wife are an example of this. They simply did not realize that they weren't actually Christians until they got into the classes a ways.)

[Judas Maccabeus]

One good thing about Keystone is that children of members and others go through the same process.

This is normal in conservative Anabaptist churches.

I have been on both sides of the table. The process should be predictable, with no surprises. We try to keep it that way.

[JohnH]

This is normal in conservative Anabaptist churches.

It is not in more conservative settings. Seekers basically get more “thorough” instruction.

I think you are going to need to provide some firm data and not make generalizations based on a few anecdotes.

It’s based on the first hand accounts of plenty of seekers. It might be useful to identify the instruction class process in various affiliations. (When I say “more conservative”, I mean Wengers, Amish and so forth.)

[Ernie]

It is not in more conservative settings. Seekers basically get more “thorough” instruction.

I think you are going to need to provide some firm data and not make generalizations based on a few anecdotes.

It’s based on the first hand accounts of plenty of seekers. It might be useful to identify the instruction class process in various affiliations. (When I say “more conservative”, I mean Wengers, Amish and so forth.)

That would be Old Orders.

[JohnH]

I think you are going to need to provide some firm data and not make generalizations based on a few anecdotes.

It’s based on the first hand accounts of plenty of seekers. It might be useful to identify the instruction class process in various affiliations. (When I say “more conservative”, I mean Wengers, Amish and so forth.)

That would be Old Orders.

And certain black car groups, who as I understand it vary but some also have an abbreviated (or no) instruction class for children of members? Plus Holdemans.

I am curious what exactly the origin of the instruction class even is - is it one of those modernist vs Old Order things?