The Mennonite Colony That Made a Deal With a Diamond Company in Angola

[JohnH]

Angola seems to import an alarming amount of food aid.

Seems it would be a good thing to start growing food domestically. Change can happen. Hunter-gatherers can learn how to till fields and grow crops.

Should they be forced to learn or should they be allowed a choice?

Well, a few things to consider here.

They don’t own the land. I don’t hunt on land I don’t own, although there are state hunting lands - but it would not be realistic to feed my family by hunting on public land. I think growing crops is much better than diamond mining too.

Currently the country is dependent on foreign food aid. I don’t think that is a good, sustainable system either.

The Old Colonists have lawfully leased the land from its owner, are putting it to use, and have offered to hire nearby residents including sharing in profits if the crop harvests are good.

[JohnH]

Wife: it’s hard to tell whether or not the New York Times is sensationalizing this or not, but I think it’s disappointing if they don’t even have a mission focus for this. Also found it interesting that they were getting kicked out of the last country because of deforestation/round up. it would be interesting to hear a less biased article before I made an actual judgment on it. It seems like it would be good to go with a focus on blessing the locals and not just on economics, but I don’t actually know what all their motives were.

Old Colonists never adopted the evangelical style of “missions”.

They don’t have room to expand in Mexico and chose to go somewhere else instead of further conflict there. The government would prefer more Mennonite farmers (and has no objection at all to using Roundup), but I think it’s wholesome they decided to look elsewhere instead of relying on the government to enforce their desired use of land.

[Ken]

Wife: it’s hard to tell whether or not the New York Times is sensationalizing this or not, but I think it’s disappointing if they don’t even have a mission focus for this. Also found it interesting that they were getting kicked out of the last country because of deforestation/round up. it would be interesting to hear a less biased article before I made an actual judgment on it. It seems like it would be good to go with a focus on blessing the locals and not just on economics, but I don’t actually know what all their motives were.

That is wrong. They are not being kicked out of Mexico. Not in the slightest. I believe legally they are Mexican citizens. No one is expelling them from Mexico.

They are simply choosing to leave Mexico on their own volition because the state and local beekeepers (the Yucatan has an enormous beekeeping industry) object to their chemical deforestation practices in the Yucatan. And apparently they would rather just pack up and go rather than use more sustainable agricultural practices. The state of Yucatan is the largest honey producing state in Mexico with over 11,000 beekeepers and 250,000 beehives. Which has been declining in the past decade (down from about 15,000) due to deforestation and practices such as widespread deforestation and chemical usage in part by Mennonite farms. https://yucatanmagazine.com/yucatan-bee ... -survival/

[JohnH]

Wife: it’s hard to tell whether or not the New York Times is sensationalizing this or not, but I think it’s disappointing if they don’t even have a mission focus for this. Also found it interesting that they were getting kicked out of the last country because of deforestation/round up. it would be interesting to hear a less biased article before I made an actual judgment on it. It seems like it would be good to go with a focus on blessing the locals and not just on economics, but I don’t actually know what all their motives were.

That is wrong. They are not being kicked out of Mexico. Not in the slightest. I believe legally they are Mexican citizens. No one is expelling them from Mexico.

They are simply choosing to leave Mexico on their own volition because the state and local beekeepers (the Yucatan has an enormous beekeeping industry) object to their chemical deforestation practices in the Yucatan. And apparently they would rather just pack up and go rather than use more sustainable agricultural practices. The state of Yucatan is the largest honey producing state in Mexico with over 11,000 beekeepers and 250,000 beehives. Which has been declining in the past decade (down from about 15,000) due to deforestation and practices such as widespread deforestation and chemical usage in part by Mennonite farms. https://yucatanmagazine.com/yucatan-bee ... -survival/

Slight correction. Mexican government policy overall is to prefer conventional agriculture to “alternative” means, so the Mennonites didn’t face any real opposition from government other than some disputes at the local or provincial (state) level.

Like most other developed countries, they really like the tax revenue, jobs, export revenue, and domestic stability from producing a lot of food.

I personally don’t like conventional agriculture methods and would not be moving to Angola to clear cut ancient forest.

[Ken]

Wife: it’s hard to tell whether or not the New York Times is sensationalizing this or not, but I think it’s disappointing if they don’t even have a mission focus for this. Also found it interesting that they were getting kicked out of the last country because of deforestation/round up. it would be interesting to hear a less biased article before I made an actual judgment on it. It seems like it would be good to go with a focus on blessing the locals and not just on economics, but I don’t actually know what all their motives were.

That is wrong. They are not being kicked out of Mexico. Not in the slightest. I believe legally they are Mexican citizens. No one is expelling them from Mexico.

They are simply choosing to leave Mexico on their own volition because the state and local beekeepers (the Yucatan has an enormous beekeeping industry) object to their chemical deforestation practices in the Yucatan. And apparently they would rather just pack up and go rather than use more sustainable agricultural practices. The state of Yucatan is the largest honey producing state in Mexico with over 11,000 beekeepers and 250,000 beehives. Which has been declining in the past decade (down from about 15,000) due to deforestation and practices such as widespread deforestation and chemical usage in part by Mennonite farms. https://yucatanmagazine.com/yucatan-bee ... -survival/

Slight correction. Mexican government policy overall is to prefer conventional agriculture to “alternative” means, so the Mennonites didn’t face any real opposition from government other than some disputes at the local or provincial (state) level.

Like most other developed countries, they really like the tax revenue, jobs, export revenue, and domestic stability from producing a lot of food.

I personally don’t like conventional agriculture methods and would not be moving to Angola to clear cut ancient forest.

Correction to what? I made no mention of Mexican federal policy. The Mexican farms in the Yucatan are facing legal opposition from local beekeepers and from state agencies that are trying to promote and protect the beekeeping industry. This National Geographic article from 2019 lays it out pretty well (you have to enter any random email address to read it): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... ers-mexico

Nevertheless, they are Mexican citizens and no one is kicking them out of Mexico despite what they might claim. They are not "refugees". We are talking what...8 families out of the 100,000 or so Mennonites who have lived in Mexico for generations and are Mexican citizens?

[Soloist]

Wife: apparently, my reading comprehension is not as good when I skim an article. I just thought it was interesting that they were being fussed at over it at least. I don’t think the article gives enough information to actually make an opinion on their recent move so it’s sort of just a wait and see. agriculture is probably more sustainable long-term then hunting/gathering, and hopefully it will be done in a way that doesn’t exploit the community around there.

[JohnH]

Correction to what? I made no mention of Mexican federal policy. The Mexican farms in the Yucatan are facing legal opposition from local beekeepers and from state agencies that are trying to promote and protect the beekeeping industry. This National Geographic article from 2019 lays it out pretty well (you have to enter any random email address to read it): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... ers-mexico

Emphasis on "from 2019". Mexico's government structure gives far more power to the federal government than lower-level agencies; it is not a federation or a federated republic, but is more like a unitary state with devolved powers to states. It's not like any farmers on the Yucatan peninsula have had to stop farming. If anything, as far as I can tell, it has expanded. (Not that I support its expansion - I don't think destroying the forest and traditional ways of growing crops and beekeeping to replace with modern industrial agriculture is a good thing. But that tends to be what big governments want.)

Nevertheless, they are Mexican citizens and no one is kicking them out of Mexico despite what they might claim. They are not "refugees". We are talking what...8 families out of the 100,000 or so Mennonites who have lived in Mexico for generations and are Mexican citizens?

I don't think anyone said they are "refugees". Nonetheless, a number of them decided to avoid the conflict after land they already purchased in the Yucatan peninsula and instead move on to greener pastures (or jungles, as the case may be). I expect them to prosper in Angola and in other places, since they seem to be very adept at dealing with corrupt governments and setting up their own micro-societies that simply generate a lot of cash for their host governments through ag exports.

[Ken]

Correction to what? I made no mention of Mexican federal policy. The Mexican farms in the Yucatan are facing legal opposition from local beekeepers and from state agencies that are trying to promote and protect the beekeeping industry. This National Geographic article from 2019 lays it out pretty well (you have to enter any random email address to read it): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... ers-mexico

Emphasis on "from 2019". Mexico's government structure gives far more power to the federal government than lower-level agencies; it is not a federation or a federated republic, but is more like a unitary state with devolved powers to states. It's not like any farmers on the Yucatan peninsula have had to stop farming. If anything, as far as I can tell, it has expanded. (Not that I support its expansion - I don't think destroying the forest and traditional ways of growing crops and beekeeping to replace with modern industrial agriculture is a good thing. But that tends to be what big governments want.)

Nevertheless, they are Mexican citizens and no one is kicking them out of Mexico despite what they might claim. They are not "refugees". We are talking what...8 families out of the 100,000 or so Mennonites who have lived in Mexico for generations and are Mexican citizens?

I don't think anyone said they are "refugees". Nonetheless, a number of them decided to avoid the conflict after land they already purchased in the Yucatan peninsula and instead move on to greener pastures (or jungles, as the case may be). I expect them to prosper in Angola and in other places, since they seem to be very adept at dealing with corrupt governments and setting up their own micro-societies that simply generate a lot of cash for their host governments through ag exports.

Right, we are in agreement that they are NOT "getting kicked out of Mexico" for religious beliefs or agricultural practices or anything else.

[JohnH]

Right, we are in agreement that they are NOT "getting kicked out of Mexico" for religious beliefs or agricultural practices or anything else.

Did anyone say they are?

I note that you do seem to me to be threatened by the idea they could be, though. Is there a reason this might be threatening to you?

[ohio jones]

Right, we are in agreement that they are NOT "getting kicked out of Mexico" for religious beliefs or agricultural practices or anything else.

Did anyone say they are?

Wife initially seemed to suggest that, but changed her mind after rereading the article.