Women's dress/fashion

[Josh]

LOL, How did we go from women's fashions to women shaving their legs and armpits?

The two are rather related, which is why old orders and “conservative” Anabaptists have different ideas about proper attire.

[Sudsy]

LOL, How did we go from women's fashions to women shaving their legs and armpits?

Because men like telling women how to be 'holy'.

[Josh]

LOL, How did we go from women's fashions to women shaving their legs and armpits?

Because men like telling women how to be 'holy'.

Would it better to encourage women to follow the fashions and trends of the world?

[steve-in-kville]

Would it better to encourage women to follow the fashions and trends of the world?

Following trends is kinda relative. For example, I dress basically the same way I did when I was in my late teens. After thinking back, my dad was the same way. So I suppose I dress "trendy" for what ever was "in" during the mid-90's.

I still sport denim jeans. At most I may have paid $35/pair. That is pretty basic. To spend $200+ for a pair that is already ripped and faded... that makes no sense and I would consider that being fashionable.

[Sudsy]

The origins of this topic started with shaving legs and why some conservative groups out there make a big deal of it. Basically, as fashion trended toward shorter skirts, the razor companies began advertising women's accessories. I think it was the 1950's when it was more/less commonplace for ladies to shave.

I am not immediately away of any specific group that makes leg shaving a test of membership, but I do know there is a mindset among the older generations.

Interestingly enough, prior to Sunday School coming into the church, women speaking in church was never a questioned thing. Now it seems to be accepted as okay and that the verses were never meaning that the women were suppose to be silent.

Or another understanding is that women were to be silent in those days as they did not have the same opportunity to spiritual teachings as the men did. However, today that is not the situation. And some believe the 'being silent' had to do with a specific situation where the women were being disruptive by asking questions during the meeting and they were told to ask those questions at home.

There seems to have always been differing applications of scriptures such as foot washing, baptism modes, WIM, baptism of the Spirit, etc, etc. It is when these become 'salvation issues' that I take a closer look.

Personally, I was raised in a Pentecostal church with a woman pastor. I'm glad she understood this 'being silent' differently as she preached and brought both my parents to the Lord. And then she was also an excellent bible teacher. I can't blame her for how I turned out. The only role currently held for men only in our local MB church is the lead pastor role.

Back on topic, perhaps because I'm old, I do think some casual dress outfits get questionably modest and can be distracting from worship.

I saw 4 cape dress style young girls that caught my eye yesterday as they also wore some very fancy looking running shoes and lettered ball caps with some kind of saying or logo. Where some dress rules draw the line can be puzzling when there is a mix of fashion and tradition.

[Sudsy]

LOL, How did we go from women's fashions to women shaving their legs and armpits?

Because men like telling women how to be 'holy'.

Would it better to encourage women to follow the fashions and trends of the world?

Imo, it would be best to encourage women to do good deeds and that should be the attention getter. I believe if we rely on the Holy Spirit to be our guide then modest dress will be part of this guidance. It may take longer for some than for others to learn to listen and follow the Holy Spirit's guidance but that is what spiritual maturing is about. It isn't about a dress code or certain other 'holiness' rules. But I know that this is not the way some Anabaptists see this and some Anabaptists prefer a more church restricted way.

Actually within Anabaptism there is quite a range of understanding on how we are to be 'in the world' but not 'of the world'. Where I live, this is quite evident among the many Mennonites.

[Josh]

I believe if we rely on the Holy Spirit to be our guide then modest dress will be part of this guidance.

OK then. Where is an example of a group of people where they consistently follow the Holy Spirit on this? In my experience, some teaching and guidelines are necessary. Perhaps the Holy Spirit also teaches through church teachings and from the pulpit, not just one on one.

[Sudsy]

I believe if we rely on the Holy Spirit to be our guide then modest dress will be part of this guidance.

OK then. Where is an example of a group of people where they consistently follow the Holy Spirit on this? In my experience, some teaching and guidelines are necessary. Perhaps the Holy Spirit also teaches through church teachings and from the pulpit, not just one on one.

I doubt one can find a 'group of people' that are all at the same spiritual level of sanctification as although we walk with the Lord corporately as the body of Christ, we also walk with the Lord individually in our spiritual development. There may be some who together determine to follow some rules but that does not necessarily describe what is going on in their hearts.

I often refer to Romans 14 as the people that felt the most free to serve the Lord were looking down on people who were living by their own convictions on what they should do as unto the Lord. The main point Paul made, imo, was to do what we do as individual believers as 'unto the Lord' and not expect everyone else to do likewise. Paul said, who are we to 'judge another man's servant' as to how he serves his master. But we are to encourage one another and, I would add, to press on to serve the Lord and follow the Spirit's guidance.

So, to me, this is a warning regarding specifics that all must follow. It seems like a resistance to accept one another's individual, spiritual growth and an attempt to force everyone to live their life at a certain group level of sanctification. Like Christianity must all look unified in our local church. Yet, that doesn't mean to ignore obvious sinning in the church either. In the Corinthian church it appears they all knew a man in their group was sleeping with his father's wife. They appeared to have been just shrugging this off and not taking steps to deal with it.

It is easy to fall back under some form of the law to attempt to get uniformity. Unity though, I believe, is to be had without uniformity. God doesn't make us into robots when we get saved but sets us on a new path of development to be more and more like Christ.

Regarding the Holy Spirit teaching from the pulpit, this is one means He uses to guide us. He also teaches us through other believers. But we must be discerning because any human can try to guide our lives and they may not be directed by the Spirit. My guess, this is why there are so many church splits. Some pastor with a personal conviction tries to impose it on the church.

I believe the local church will be a range of newborns (and will often act as physical newborns) all the way up to the most spiritual which would ideally be those who lead. However, those who have been around the longest are not always the most spiritually mature and will not be good to select as leaders. Again the need for discernment and Holy Spirit guidance.

These are my current understandings and I don't claim to be at a certain level of spiritual maturity. But I'm open to other's beliefs especially if they are scripturally supported.

[ohio jones]

LOL, How did we go from women's fashions to women shaving their legs and armpits?

Because men like telling women how to be 'holy'.

Would it better to encourage women to follow the fashions and trends of the world?

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

[Josh]

It would be better for older women to encourage younger women to follow appropriate clothing and behavior, rather than for the men to do so.

Which is exactly how it works in any plain church. Of course many of the older women often do consult with their husbands.

I'm not sure why these conversations always turn into "why are the men telling the women what to do". In my congregation the harshest criticism of how women are dressed tends to come from other women. Most men would prefer not to have to talk about it.