Mennonite Church USA says defund the police

[Pelerin]

I saw this announced a few weeks ago. From the announcement, I would have expected the question mark could be left out, and from what I’ve skimmed, that bears up. I feel disappointed with what I’ve seen, mainly in that there’s nothing particularly Anabaptist, or even Christian about it. The parts from the Bible feel accidental to a point that could have been made without them.

Ken is right, it’s a legitimate (and necessary) line of inquiry for a peace church, and liberal Mennonites can have—and have had—unique insights into the topic. For example, I thought week four (transformative justice) was one of the stronger lessons. This is an area the MCC has a lot of experience in, I think in Northern Ireland, and other conflict areas, but that experience went entirely unused.

Liberal Mennonites aren’t the only one that have things to say on the topic. In my experience, the more conservative, the less likely an Anabaptist is to call the police. (Indeed, I think it’s a little ironic that conservatives have spent the last two years learning to call the police, with the whole Jeriah thing, just as the liberals have been learning not to.) I was once with a conservative evangelical Mennonite when he talked a police officer out of arresting a young man on a minor charge. Prison ministries are another popular conservative Mennonite way of offering support to people who have ended up in prison, though probably not one that would satisfy police abolitionists. (Maybe Mike can chime in with some insights.)

Even if this particular answer isn’t satisfying, I think it’s still important that we have an answer to the question, “If we’re not going to call the police, then what?”

———

Regarding Kris’s original point: in this both liberal and evangelical (Republican) Mennonites agree: the world is bad, but we can fix it if we can just get ahold of the reins of power. It’s beyond the question of whether or not to vote, and I think it rejects something central to Anabaptism.

[Josh]

“If we good people control the police, everything will be better.”

This is how both the right wing and how liberals think and what they truly believe.

Of course, the fact both of them control 100% of the use of force is lost on them. They’re too busy blaming all their problems on the “other side”.

[Bootstrap]

Regarding Kris’s original point: in this both liberal and evangelical (Republican) Mennonites agree: the world is bad, but we can fix it if we can just get ahold of the reins of power. It’s beyond the question of whether or not to vote, and I think it rejects something central to Anabaptism.

Well said.

What it rejects is the centrality of the Kingdom of God.

[temporal1]

“If we good people control the police, everything will be better.”

This is how both the right wing and how liberals think and what they truly believe.

Of course, the fact both of them control 100% of the use of force is lost on them. They’re too busy blaming all their problems on the “other side”.

“Defunding” any taxpayer entity should be presumed to mean:
END TAXES, return accumulated taxpayer funds to taxpayers.

This is not that.
This is pirating established funds (AND INCREASING TAXES) - to be reappropriated to (guess who?) - the pirates.
They presume to leave out the middleman - taxpayers.



Commonly confused: Worship of self is not worship of God.

[temporal1]

This is a push to make police no longer locally accountable and eventually replace them with a federal police force which would be easier to politically control, much like how things work in Canada.

Most the left agitating for this are playing the role of Lenin’s “useful idiots” - playing right into the hands of their oppressors.

There could be real alternatives to over-policing, but there isn’t any talk in these left wing dialogues about how to fix the problem of violent crime and property crime. You can’t have stable families and stable businesses when violent crime and burglaries, cars being stolen, home invasions etc. are the norm. Nobody seems to want to talk realistically about how much of a problem this is, and will become a much worse problem if the police are “defunded”.

i largely agree with you.
the rush is for a money+power grab, “fixing” problems is an annoying detail to be forgotten.

the #1 place to focus for incompetence+corruption is: unions.
whether in schools, police, the private sector, UNIONS are known for protecting+enabling problem employees.

unions are so popular (and now powerful) - they’re like motor vehicles.
known sources of harm+death, but, who will give them up?

and, to repeat, the real way to get rid of police is: stop committing crimes.

PEACE OFFICERS
http://golawenforcement.com/articles/wh ... e-officer/

What is a Peace Officer?
Police Officer Swearing In
When applying for various law enforcement jobs the term “Peace Officer” may be used.
While the term can vary from state to state it usually means a position that carries a badge, has the power to arrest, and also carries a firearm.

A police officer, deputy sheriff, state trooper, and special agent all have the similarity of being peace officer positions.
There is also the term “Sworn” which generally means sworn in as a peace officer.
Federal law enforcement positions get their authority from federal law.

However, many federal law enforcement positions are also recognized as peace officers under state law which gives the authority to enforcement state and local laws.

When determining your law enforcement career path it is helpful to have an idea as to if you want to apply for sworn or non sworn positions.

i don’t use the usually derogatory slang word, “cop.”
i have heard the label, peace officers, all my life. i believe it’s a good label for the VAST MAJORITY of their work.
i doubt the majority of officers ever draw their firearms or fire them in the line of duty.

police hate paperwork.
from what i understand, every incident involving firearms requires a lot of paperwork.

[Bootstrap]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

[temporal1]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

In my view, without implicating police unions’ culpability, it’s a matter of identifying the odd scapegoat.
Returning incompetent or corrupt employees to active duty hurts everyone - including honorable police.
The same happens in schools and other places where unions are influential.

Christians and churches are specially positioned to persuade against committing sins+crimes.

[Bootstrap]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

In my view, without implicating police unions’ culpability, it’s a matter of identifying the odd scapegoat.

Christians and churches are specially positioned to persuade against committing sins+crimes.

Odd scapegoat? Who are you calling a scapegoat in Chauvin's murder of George Floyd?

[RZehr]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder?

Sure, if it makes them feel better. It is mostly just pontificating to their own people. No one else cares. Where is the line into self importance and how close to situations does one need to be to issue a public position onto societies ears? Has the Society of Hares, Horses, & Hamsters weighed in yet? Or the Central Oregon Pear Society?
To be fully woke, I suppose we ought to each personally ensure that our personal position on each crime committed is known by all. Join our personal voice to the cacophony of chaos, and not be content with MCUSA or any group speak for us. My point is that if no one is listening to you, are you just grandstanding to your own?

There is a humorous saying, “I’m their leader, which way did they go?” That is what this reminds me of. Looking to see which way society is heading, then rushing to the front of the pack, checking over your shoulder occasionally to see if the parade has turned down a side street, or if they are still behind you. After all, you aren’t really leading them, your simply trying to stay at the front of the pack. Make no mistake, they aren’t following you.

[temporal1]

Should MC-USA have anything at all to say about George Floyd's murder? Should Christians or churches voice concerns about injustice? If so, how?

In my view, without implicating police unions’ culpability, it’s a matter of identifying the odd scapegoat.

Christians and churches are specially positioned to persuade against committing sins+crimes.

Odd scapegoat? Who are you calling a scapegoat in Chauvin's murder of George Floyd?

this smells like a bunny trail .. ..
i have tried to ignore this case. from the little i read, mostly last year, i believe chauvin had a problem employment record, enough that, if i read correctly, i don’t see how he could have been employed as he was. imho, unions are responsible for returning the incompetent/corrupt to active duty (whether police, teachers, or other). they are the “big fish” that should be held to task.

in my view, another elephant in the living room.

i’m not against unions, per se.
i’m against any entity that is seen to be above accountability. unions are proudly so.