joshuabgood wrote:We submit to what we want to submit to...and not only that but we demand complete submission about very small details. But we will not submit to small details regulated by others.
Whether or not it's truly a Two Kingdoms thing, it does seem to matter who has the authority to make the demand. At one level there's a sense that one has the option of choosing which authority to submit to, as expressed here:
If someone doesn't want to do the dress code, there are many churches down the road that they can join.
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
ohio jones wrote:
Whether or not it's truly a Two Kingdoms thing, it does seem to matter who has the authority to make the demand. At one level there's a sense that one has the option of choosing which authority to submit to, as expressed here:
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
Do you believe that the Holy Kiss is ultimately a symbolic act?
Or is there actual physical "brotherhood" of some sort that is lost if it is not performed in a specific manner?
Would you still perform it, for example, if you knew the person in front of you was contagious with ebola, leprosy, AIDs, syphilis or some other deadly or disfiguring disease that is transmitted via bodily fluids?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ohio jones wrote:
Whether or not it's truly a Two Kingdoms thing, it does seem to matter who has the authority to make the demand. At one level there's a sense that one has the option of choosing which authority to submit to, as expressed here:
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
Perhaps you missed the point of my comment. The point was, you are not actually welcomed to "go to the church down the streeet." You are not accepted as a Christian brother if you do.
Regarding the holy kiss, given the pandemic, methinks a time of pausing the practice would be God honoring.
joshuabgood wrote:
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
Perhaps you missed the point of my comment. The point was, you are not actually welcomed to "go to the church down the streeet." You are not accepted as a Christian brother if you do.
Regarding the holy kiss, given the pandemic, methinks a time of pausing the practice would be God honoring.
I think I did miss the point of your comment. Is the reason you can't easily find another church "down the street" because you don't accept them and their practices, or because they won't accept you?
As for the various practices of Christianity. I think most of them are ultimately symbolic. Even communion, for example. I don't think many Mennonites or protestants believe in literal transubstantiation like the Catholics. That you are drinking the literal blood of Christ and eating his literal flesh. In fact Christianity is dripping in symbolism from the cross to the dove to the fish to the olive branch.
It seems a very brittle and fragile religion that can't temporarily adjust symbolic acts out of concern for the health and welfare of others.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ohio jones wrote:
Whether or not it's truly a Two Kingdoms thing, it does seem to matter who has the authority to make the demand. At one level there's a sense that one has the option of choosing which authority to submit to, as expressed here:
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
joshuabgood is being disingenuous; his congregation and denomination basically hasn’t practiced the holy kiss at all since the “pandemic” started in March.
joshuabgood wrote:
I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood and joined in holy communion.
Did you not just answer your own OP?!
If you wouldn't attend a church that didn't have the Holy kiss, then wouldn't it make perfect sense that the viewing was consistent to the application of greeting with the Holy kiss? Because how could one do that with a mask on?
Or do propose wear a mask and then pull it down for greeting and then pull it back up as acceptable in obeying God and man both?
Perhaps you missed the point of my comment. The point was, you are not actually welcomed to "go to the church down the streeet." You are not accepted as a Christian brother if you do.
Regarding the holy kiss, given the pandemic, methinks a time of pausing the practice would be God honoring.
Where does the Bible say this? When the NT was written there was a lot more death and dying of infectious disease than we have today.
joshuabgood wrote:What I am interested in is, what is the psychology that permits embracing conformity and submission to authority with regard to very small personal details (when it comes to local community norms - that is church rules in plain language), but is so comfortable flatly ignoring lawful orders?
I'm clearly out of the loop, and my understanding may be obsolete. However, decades ago when I attended an Eastern School (for 10 years) and was an Eastern church member, the disconnect between church authority and "local community norms" was a gaping abyss. Though typically unspoken, godliness was frequently ascribed to going countercultural.
Political matters were "otherly." So much so that in a tenth-grade essay assignment I was oblivious to the fact that I had featured the Pharisee and "Republican" (vs publican) who went up to the temple to pray.
Biblical Anabaptist wrote:
I think there are possibly several things contributing to this:
1. I think some of it is "making a difference between the "Two Kingdoms" in their submission priorities. The thinking is that "We should obey God rather than man"
I agree this contributes. There is an element of being a separate people with a separate authority structure.
3. There is a segment (probably a minority) who do follow the guidelines and do not attend this type of event. When at these type events you do not see how many are in fact following the guidelines and just stay at home.
...
5. I think but can not verify that among these groups the most vulnerable are staying at home and do not attend these type events when under normal circumstances they would attend.
I'm aware of people who are doing (3) and (5); it is a small minority.
joshuabgood wrote:I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood
At our church, most of the people have "gone back to normal" in their weekday lives, but when they gather at a public place, masks are worn so as to "not cause offense in the community and honor the governor". Most of the men have resumed the holy kiss while wearing masks.
Steve has it right I think. Group conformity is huge in the more conservative groups and no one wants to be the oddball. If a few were willing to be oddballs they would be viewed as:
1. Oddballs
2. Living in fear
3. A conformer to general societies' norms.
I know this because a brother contacted me about attending our church for awhile because his children were being mocked for being the only ones wearing masks to church.
joshuabgood wrote:I could accept that if they still granted the kiss of brotherhood
At our church, most of the people have "gone back to normal" in their weekday lives, but when they gather at a public place, masks are worn so as to "not cause offense in the community and honor the governor". Most of the men have resumed the holy kiss while wearing masks.
Steve has it right I think. Group conformity is huge in the more conservative groups and no one wants to be the oddball. If a few were willing to be oddballs they would be viewed as:
1. Oddballs
2. Living in fear
3. A conformer to general societies' norms.
I know this because a brother contacted me about attending our church for awhile because his children were being mocked for being the only ones wearing masks to church.
I attended a funeral for a brother from an affiliation more conservative than my own. I figured there might be some of that Joshua described, and I can't afford to get it at this time, no one in my congregation can. So I brought my N-95 from work. There were only 3 masks in a group of 250. No one said anything, but I am not well known in those circles. Those that I did know seemed ok with it.
Masks are worn consistently in my congregation, as per the governor's order and common sense.