Why don't you vote?

[Ken]

Not voting doesn’t mean I don’t hold opinions. If I were living in the Weimar Republic, I would probably hold an opinion that Hitler wasn’t a good person to run the country. If I were living in Ukraine during the revolution, I would probably hold anti-Lenin opinions.

Do you think that’s wrong of me, Ken?

I think you are free to hold whatever opinions that you want and engage in whatever public political processes that you want. It is a free country. You are free to hold and express any opinions you want as well as vote or not vote. My point is that I see people here saying that the reason they don't vote is because "I am an ambassador of a another country as the scripture instructs in II Corinthians 5"

An actual ambassador from another land would strictly avoid all partisan politics, not just voting. The Ambassadors to the US from say the UK or Germany will strictly avoid attending any sorts of partisan events in the US, they will avoid donating to any American interest groups that seek to influence politics. They will not donate to the campaigns themselves or actually vote which would be illegal anyway. And they will diligently avoid expressing any opinions at all in public that could be interpreted as the UK or Germany favoring one candidate or issue over another. They would engage with the US government to the extent that issues affect the UK like treaties and trade agreements and extraditions and so forth. That is the purpose of an ambassador. To represent their country's interests. But would not do things like lobby congress on general issues.

A Christian following that same standard would not just avoid voting. But from engaging in any partisan politics at all. Would not attend political rallies, donate to candidates, donate to interest groups that seek to influence candidates or voters, or even express political opinions that would suggest their religious group favors one candidate or side over the other. I fail to see the difference, for example, between donating time or money to say the National Right to Life Committee, which uses its resources to support GOP candidates and campaigns on their behalf to influence votes. And voting yourself. If you seek to influence someone else's vote but don't vote yourself, that seems a distinction without a difference.

I'm not suggesting that non-voting Mennonites here actually do this. I haven't correlated those who say that they don't vote against those who engage in partisan political fights in the politics forums here or elsewhere online or in public.
Partisanship within religious organizations is actually extremely common in the US from the Catholic church to Evangelical churches to traditional Black churches. But to the extent that there are Mennonites who engage in other forms of partisan politics in public and seek to influence others, but then stop short of voting for religious reasons. And I know they do exist. That just strikes me as splitting hairs and making a distinction without a difference.

[Soloist]

I think you are free to hold whatever opinions that you want and engage in whatever public political processes that you want. It is a free country. You are free to hold and express any opinions you want as well as vote or not vote. My point is that I see people here saying that the reason they don't vote is because "I am an ambassador of a another country as the scripture instructs in II Corinthians 5"

An actual ambassador from another land would strictly avoid all partisan politics, not just voting. The Ambassadors to the US from say the UK or Germany will strictly avoid attending any sorts of partisan events in the US, they will avoid donating to any American interest groups that seek to influence politics. They will not donate to the campaigns themselves or actually vote which would be illegal anyway. And they will diligently avoid expressing any opinions at all in public that could be interpreted as the UK or Germany favoring one candidate or issue over another. They would engage with the US government to the extent that issues affect the UK like treaties and trade agreements and extraditions and so forth. That is the purpose of an ambassador. To represent their country's interests. But would not do things like lobby congress on general issues.

A Christian following that same standard would not just avoid voting. But from engaging in any partisan politics at all. Would not attend political rallies, donate to candidates, donate to interest groups that seek to influence candidates or voters, or even express political opinions that would suggest their religious group favors one candidate or side over the other. I fail to see the difference, for example, between donating time or money to say the National Right to Life Committee, which uses its resources to support GOP candidates and campaigns on their behalf to influence votes. And voting yourself. If you seek to influence someone else's vote but don't vote yourself, that seems a distinction without a difference.

I'm not suggesting that non-voting Mennonites here actually do this. I haven't correlated those who say that they don't vote against those who engage in partisan political fights in the politics forums here or elsewhere online or in public.
Partisanship within religious organizations is actually extremely common in the US from the Catholic church to Evangelical churches to traditional Black churches. But to the extent that there are Mennonites who engage in other forms of partisan politics in public and seek to influence others, but then stop short of voting for religious reasons. And I know they do exist. That just strikes me as splitting hairs and making a distinction without a difference.

I find that representing our King isn't wrong as an ambassador, but to form political positions favoring one side or another shouldn't be the case. We can support our kingdom's agenda's as they align with the world but I'm extremely hesitant to belong to any organization. There is a pro life nurse's association I'd consider being part of but they use the dollars paid to support politicians and actively take part, Homeschool legal defense is the same way and my wife and I bowed out of that membership quite some time ago seeking to not add our dollars to politics.
I'm not silent about my political views but I've got in arguments over democratic positions I would think would represent Christianity better that people would think would be bad to give any inch to democratic positions. Generally in discussions with my brother, he is mad that I don't vote but would be mad if I voted for Trump or a third party. The wall to witnessing is narrowed if I vote.
I would say that claiming to not vote and engaging in advocating for a party would be a discredit to us.

[Ken]

I find that representing our King isn't wrong as an ambassador, but to form political positions favoring one side or another shouldn't be the case. We can support our kingdom's agenda's as they align with the world but I'm extremely hesitant to belong to any organization. There is a pro life nurse's association I'd consider being part of but they use the dollars paid to support politicians and actively take part, Homeschool legal defense is the same way and my wife and I bowed out of that membership quite some time ago seeking to not add our dollars to politics.
I'm not silent about my political views but I've got in arguments over democratic positions I would think would represent Christianity better that people would think would be bad to give any inch to democratic positions. Generally in discussions with my brother, he is mad that I don't vote but would be mad if I voted for Trump or a third party. The wall to witnessing is narrowed if I vote.
I would say that claiming to not vote and engaging in advocating for a party would be a discredit to us.

That makes sense. I would never be mad at someone who didn't vote for any deeply held moral, ethical, or religious reasons. I can respect that. Many millions don't vote for far more trivial reasons or no reason at all.

I guess I'm just asking if you believe God disapproves of Christians voting themselves, but approves of Christians seeking to reach an invisible hand into the voting both to influence how others vote.

But I asked it in a much more long-winded way.

[Soloist]

That makes sense. I would never be mad at someone who didn't vote for any deeply held moral, ethical, or religious reasons. I can respect that. Many millions don't vote for far more trivial reasons or no reason at all.

I guess I'm just asking if you believe God disapproves of Christians voting themselves, but approves of Christians seeking to reach an invisible hand into the voting both to influence how others vote.

But I asked it in a much more long-winded way.

Thats a good question and to answer it I can only speak for myself.

The act of voting isn't evil, so strictly speaking God doesn't care (my opinion) if we vote.
Now who we vote for God would care about.
So from a philosophical approach, I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with voting for a mayor, superintendent, fire chief or a city clerk. The issues would start to mount if you believe that the actions they take are endorsed by your vote. If you believe you are clean of responsibility to their action then it doesn't matter. Otherwise, multiple policies might be things we would see as wrong such as making a local levy for military, changing policing policies or who uses a bathroom for instance. We wouldn't endorse sanctuary cities set up to defy the federal government and as these issues come to the front, these relatively little votes might be such to go against the commands of God.
So while I don't view the act of voting as inherently sinful I would question how someone could vote for our president or Biden or even any third party without connecting responsibility to those edicts.
Thus I would say that Christians should not vote but I would hold it to the same level as someone who is ignorant of what the Scriptures actually say about head covering. I think voting or not voting will not condemn you as not following God and likewise someone who believes its the hair and is modest, chaste and submissive to their husband I do not believe God would condemn them.

Hopefully my rambles answer the question for you.

[MaxPC]

While I am a US citizen, More importantly I am an ambassador, a stranger and pilgrim. I’ve not much more loyalty in this country or interest in voting in this country than in another country.
Jesus said his kingdom is not if this world, and in that same sense of apartness, as His subject, I am not of this world. Most of this I suppose most voting Christians would agree with so far.
But practically speaking, I find voting to engender political loyalty’s that are better left neutral. And (voting or not) strong political opinions are a hinderance to better things.
On this site, Wade pointed out the problem of asking someone else to do something for you that you would not feel right doing yourself. This is also a big problem on the topic of voting for Sheriff or President and probably a lot of other offices.
I would find it more difficult to explain why I vote for an office, but refuse to hold office.
To abstain from voting completely is much cleaner and simpler than refusing to vote on some things, or refusing to hold office, or some other line.
Remember the experience of the PA Mennonite voters who voted for candidates who were pro-war? Remember how that turned out for them.

I think to not vote is much, much to be preferred than voting. But I do not think less of people who vote, nor do I think it is sin.

Tonight my sons were asking me who I thought was going to win the Presidency, who I wanted to win, and who I thought would be best for Mennonites. To each question I simply said I don’t know or something like that. I am not interested in feeding an interest in, and opinions of, party politics to children.

Just some of my quick thoughts.

Neto’s and Rzehr’s responses resonate with and echo my own thoughts.

[steve-in-kville]

If you don't vote, you forfeit your right to argue about politics

[runs for cover ]

[Josh]

If you don't vote, you forfeit your right to argue about politics

[runs for cover ]

If you don’t come to my church’s members meetings, you forfeit your right to argue about Mennonites.

[Soloist]

If you don't vote, you forfeit your right to argue about politics

[runs for cover ]

If you don’t come to my church’s members meetings, you forfeit your right to argue about Mennonites.

If you if you post on Menno, you forfeit your right to be called conservative.

[steve-in-kville]

Argue or discuss like grown ups? There's a difference.

I'll go if you want me to.