Non-resistance

[Dan Z]

I'm not sure how I think about wresting a weapon away from someone. That feels wrong to me.
How is passive restraint different from regular restraint?

To be clear, I'm not talking about self-defense here. For me, the goal (as a last resort) would be to protect others by trying to restrain, block, or hinder an aggressor from harming an innocent person.

Practically speaking, for example, I have spent a good part of my life responsible for the safety and well-being of children, both as a father and camp director. As someone committed to nonresistance, I have had to think this through in advance. If I was personally attacked, I would (and have) turn the other cheek. However, in the event that anyone were to attempt to harm one of the little ones in my care, I would do all I could, in good conscience, to keep that from happening - including prayer, acts of kindness, verbal dissuasion, placing myself between the children and the aggressor, and, yes, if need be,physically restraining the aggressor as a last resort in order to keep harm from occurring.

I won't use a weapon, lethal/injurious force, or punitive/anger-driven aggression to hurt or beat anyone - but obstruction and/or restraint used to help keep wrong to others from occurring does not, in my mind, violate the spirit or letter of the teachings of Christ.

Hope that helps.

[Josh]

If a child grabs hold of a loaded gun, you'd better believe I'm going to do what I can to disarm them. I'm not going to kill or injure them, but I would definitely do what I could to get a dangerous weapon out of their hands.

That's a good general guideline to go by.

[Wade]

My impression is that Christ was bold in speaking the truth when they tried to question or find fault in Him. I think He addressed those trying to find fault each time and after that they had to think of something else, therefore it wasn't arguing back and forth as I understand it.

He never defended physically because He saw a different kingdom that does not war against flesh and blood. He didn't even stop His disciple from cutting off the high servants ear but rather healed it. He willfully died without restraint or defense because He didn't see His suffering as being a victim. Yet if there ever was someone that was a victim; it was Him because He knew no sin. He was not a victim He chose a better way, making a way for us and setting an example for us.

I don't want to sound like I know I could accept someone hurting a loved one while I stand by but I pray if an unfortunate circumstance ever presents itself that I could look to Him in having a God honoring response. God allows things in our lives and others lives that can seem so wrong to us. But we can't see the bigger picture and need to pray for the pulling down of the powers of darkness and fully trust Him and what He is doing or allowing, especially the things we can't see.

Death is a reality that comes from sin and that reality has power in partner with the conscience and conviction of the Spirit to soften the hardest of hearts. It seems the hardest of hearts get adrenaline rushes out of escaping death(look at the thrill seeking rides, etc.) or feel power when killing but they are completely stripped of any false power or glory when they have an unassuming person(s) lay down his life and has no fear of death. Christ knew God has the authority to take away that power whenever He pleases. Reminds me of Job - the good Lord giveth and taketh away. The hardened heart wants that power and can never have it! He has overcome the world!

[KingdomBuilder]

However standing for truth doesn't pardon arguing or defending

This certainly requires some effort... Good points in your comment, Wade.

[Josh]

We need to talk about the "non-resistance in speech" thing, which seems to be a common debate tactic amongst non-plain Anabaptists or amongst seekers when talking to established plain Anabaptists.

Somehow the idea has gotten out there that the fact I am non-resistant also means I will be a doormat. I'm not sure where people get this idea.

[KingdomBuilder]

We need to talk about the "non-resistance in speech" thing, which seems to be a common debate tactic amongst non-plain Anabaptists or amongst seekers when talking to established plain Anabaptists.

Somehow the idea has gotten out there that the fact I am non-resistant also means I will be a doormat. I'm not sure where people get this idea.

I don't think anyone is suggesting to be a doormat. There's absolutely nothing wrong with zealously proclaiming truth and knowledge. I think it is more about not striving for conflict, being passive aggressive, building controversy, and instigating arguments. There are cases where it's best to just hold your tongue and take a (verbal) beating from others; that's what it's about to me.

[Josh]

To give an example, I said I don't believe Christians should use violence in self defence or defence of family / friends / loved ones.

My counterpart said he wished for more "non-resistance of tongue" in particular about this issues. I find that position specious.

[Soloist]

We need to talk about the "non-resistance in speech" thing, which seems to be a common debate tactic amongst non-plain Anabaptists or amongst seekers when talking to established plain Anabaptists.

Somehow the idea has gotten out there that the fact I am non-resistant also means I will be a doormat. I'm not sure where people get this idea.

I would never argue the Scriptures say be a doormat...
I would however suggest that all Christians must be "seekers" of truth.

Prov 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised [is] wisdom. Prov 15:1
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
Prov 15:4
A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.
Prov 15:28
The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.

Matt 5:5
Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matt 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1Cor 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Eph 4:15
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

Phil 2:14
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phil 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Phil 2:16
Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Col 3:7
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

2Tim 2:14
Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.
2Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Tim 2:16
But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Tim 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Tim 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Tim 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
2Tim 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Tim 2:26
And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Titus 3:1
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Titus 3:2
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

[Dan Z]

To give an example, I said I don't believe Christians should use violence in self defence or defence of family / friends / loved ones.

My counterpart said he wished for more "non-resistance of tongue" in particular about this issues. I find that position specious.

As in - "You should just be quite and not try to convince anyone of your position (even if you hold it because you believe it to be the call of Christ)?"

Specious indeed

[Josh]

To give an example, I said I don't believe Christians should use violence in self defence or defence of family / friends / loved ones.

My counterpart said he wished for more "non-resistance of tongue" in particular about this issues. I find that position specious.

As in - "You should just be quite and not try to convince anyone of your position (even if you hold it because you believe it to be the call of Christ)?"

Specious indeed

There seems to be a particularly new breed of non-resistance where defending loved ones/wife/kids in your own home is OK (with firearms even). I keep running into it in less-conservative settings.