The NEW Non-conformity Poll

[Ernie]

As a sideline... I'm waiting for the day when churches also add non-accumulation to their list.

It doesn't work in a capitalistic society. Also, it's an amoral issue.

Depends on how you define it... like any other term.

[Hats Off]

As a sideline... I'm waiting for the day when churches also add non-accumulation to their list.

Don't hold your breath while waiting!

[Hats Off]

Yes I remember that quote Ohio Jones. It is interesting that one of our main doctrines in the Mennonite context is defining what we are NOT (non-conformity).

But you see, non-conformity comes from Romans 12:2 "be not conformed". We seem to stress that part of the verse while more or less neglecting the "be transformed." It would seem to me that the transformation part is to be taken spiritually while we take the not conformed part more materially.

[gcdonner]

Yes I remember that quote Ohio Jones. It is interesting that one of our main doctrines in the Mennonite context is defining what we are NOT (non-conformity).

But you see, non-conformity comes from Romans 12:2 "be not conformed". We seem to stress that part of the verse while more or less neglecting the "be transformed." It would seem to me that the transformation part is to be taken spiritually while we take the not conformed part more materially.

Actually, does the Apostle even imply material non-conformity in the passage? He says to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, which may result in modesty and simplicity, but does it refer to a uniformity of clothes? I remember well when the plain cut suit coat was very popular back in the 60s, though it was referred to as the Nehru jacket and even Benny Hinn has been known to wear one from time to time. Does that make them fit into Mennonite culture?

[Hats Off]

We take the approach that it is easier to avoid conforming to worldly and changing dress styles by having a standard pattern of dress. We don't take non-conformity to the extend that we recommend shorter dresses when the world wears longer dresses. I find it easier to know what is acceptable for myself when I fall in line with a standard - I no longer have to decide whether this is fitting for me; I only decide whether I am conforming to the spirit of our dress standard. Uniform dress is more about avoiding the excesses of the fashion world, than about finding the perfect standard of not conforming.

I don't know Benny Hinn nor do most men who wear the straight cut suit. My father and grandfather were wearing the straight cut suit long before 1960. I would guess the rest of his clothes and his life would indicate whether he was copying us or wearing it so he was not conforming to the world. But no doubt Benny was wearing it to show a different type of non-conformity.

And you will of course note that I also felt that transformation was more important that not conforming.

[Ernie]

Romans 12:1-2 is in the context of human relationships. (I don't know if "clothing" even entered Paul's mind when he wrote this, contrary to the first thing that pops into many Anabaptist's minds. I suppose the Holy Spirit could apply it in ways that Paul did not think of... but you get the picture.)

I interpret these verses to mean, "Don't try to love people the way the world tries to love people. Love people the way Jesus loves people!."

[steve-in-kville]

I had a little chance to think about this a bit more.

Non-conformity means just that: you don't fit molds. I learned the hard way that I don't fit molds very well. I don't fit the "worlds" mold and I always had a hard time fitting the Mennonite mold.

So, my question is, are we conforming if we fit ourselves into a church standard? Is that really non-conforming? At what point does the church become a cult if it requires a certain dress code, bans certain entertainment and technology, tells us who we can and cannot marry, and controls very aspect of our lives?

You just found yourself conforming. We are to follow Jesus, not earthly man-made "code". Think about it.

Food for thought.

[Dan Z]

I had a little chance to think about this a bit more.

Non-conformity means just that: you don't fit molds. I learned the hard way that I don't fit molds very well. I don't fit the "worlds" mold and I always had a hard time fitting the Mennonite mold.

So, my question is, are we conforming if we fit ourselves into a church standard? Is that really non-conforming? At what point does the church become a cult if it requires a certain dress code, bans certain entertainment and technology, tells us who we can and cannot marry, and controls very aspect of our lives?

You just found yourself conforming. We are to follow Jesus, not earthly man-made "code". Think about it.

Food for thought.

Good thoughts Steve.

I'd put it this way...the biblical gist of "non-conformity" (to the patterns of this world) is conformity to the image of Christ. This, if we find a group of believers who are taking the teachings and example of Jesus seriously, then conformity to them is conformity to Christ.

Conforming to Christ with fellow believers is powerful - in it there is mutual (and amplified) witness, collective discernment, shared gifts, mutual aid, and mutual accountability. It is, in its ideal, what the church can and should be.

[Dan Z]

In the Ultra-conservative and Intermediate-conservative constituencies, non-conformity and non-resistance are two doctrines that are heavily emphasized and taught regularly in new believers instruction classes and winter Bible schools.

Thanks for this update ernie. I'm not surprised. In fact, if I'm not wrong, most of the ultra-conservative groups started as a split in reaction to the liberal/worldly drift of their parent denomination. Therefore, a strong emphasis on separation and non-conformity is baked into their DNA as a core identity.

Some have pointed out that non-conformity comes from the first great commandment, and non-resistance comes from the second great commandment. Love for God and love for man.

Interesting - I hadn't heard that before.

As a sideline... I'm waiting for the day when churches also add non-accumulation to their list.

Amen

[DrWojo]

Many good thought provoking points are made. It is striking me harder and harder when I witness that harsh-approached hardcore Nonconformity can and does create stumbling blocks in front of babes in Christ who are endeavoring to begin their walk in Sanctification, walking in the light God is giving them, but become offended because other Christians have taken it upon themselves to shove meat for mature Christians down the throats of babes in Christ.