Discerning "why" Seekers come

[temporal1]

example. how did you and your dear wife meet, and begin? ..
i do not know, but, frequently, the early days are .. awkward.

my wife was wanting to be a pastor so I looked up all the verses on females in positions of teaching in the Bible and gave it to her. Our next encounter was getting stabbed by the paramedic students together for IV practice.

good job there, man. thread idea!
i recall Country Boy describing how he+his lovely wife began.
it was entertaining, to say the least.
maybe if we begin a thread, like, “How did you meet?” he will stop in to tell the tale once again.
he’s overdue for a visit.
bbl.

[Dan Z]

Hi Wade - these are good questions...and it sounds like they are coming in response to some experiences that have been less than ideal for you and your family. You are not alone in having a rough time coming into a Conservative Mennonite group. I'm sorry if the road has been bumpy for you and your family. Please don't let it discourage your spiritual journey or your commitment to the way of Jesus!

First let me start by sharing that I too am a seeker who was not born into a plain family by any means. Non-conformity and non-resistance were both convictions that my wife and I came to along the way as a young couple (30+ years ago) - and it was a transition that came at a cost - especially as we related to our families. I would also add Wade that we too have struggled some with how to fit into groups that not only represented a church but a very strong ethno-culture.

In my post that you quoted above, my aim was certainly not to encourage more judgement or put up more barriers (as you have noted, the cultural barriers are already quite formidable at times), but to spur on my fellow Conservative Anabaptists to do a better job at trying to get into the lives and hearts of seekers to better understand the motives behind why seekers come to us in the first place. It is also a recognition that people come to plain communities for all kinds of reasons - with all kinds of motives - including the desire to become part of a culture that, for whatever reason, is attractive to them. I went on to say "This certainly shouldn't affect the welcome they receive, but it does affect how we minister to folks and move them deeper into relationship with Christ and his Kingdom." For both plain people and seekers, all of this really needs to be, at its core, about following Jesus.

Let me say this another way:

• - for Conservative Anabaptists, what we are doing should not primarily be about maintaining safe ethno-cultural boundaries, but about living together as Salt & Light as we faithfully follow Christ...and welcoming & discipling others to join us in that quest.
  - for seekers drawn to Conservative Anabaptist churches, this should not primarily be about trying to be a part of an alternative culture or lifestyle, but about surrendering to the cause of Christ, and joining with other believers in seeking to live out a faithful witness for his Kingdom.

Anything else and we end up in the weeds!

[Wade]

example. how did you and your dear wife meet, and begin? ..
i do not know, but, frequently, the early days are .. awkward.

my wife was wanting to be a pastor so I looked up all the verses on females in positions of teaching in the Bible and gave it to her. Our next encounter was getting stabbed by the paramedic students together for IV practice.

I was 21. My best friend moved away. So the next day I went for a drive and ended up finding another friend sitting beside the river with two tubes waiting for someone else that never showed up. He asked if I would go? I went and seen the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. I didn't talk to her most the day as I thought she wouldn't be interested in me. Little did I know how precious of a heart she has.

Although we made many mistakes with numerous struggles and much of our start was not good, as I was an atheist and her a Catholic yet we have had the opportunity of growing to know and love the Lord together for much of our journey.

[temporal1]

example. how did you and your dear wife meet, and begin? ..
i do not know, but, frequently, the early days are .. awkward.

my wife was wanting to be a pastor so I looked up all the verses on females in positions of teaching in the Bible and gave it to her. Our next encounter was getting stabbed by the paramedic students together for IV practice.

I was 21. My best friend moved away. So the next day I went for a drive and ended up finding another friend sitting beside the river with two tubes waiting for someone else that never showed up. He asked if I would go?

I went and seen the most beautiful woman I had ever seen.
I didn't talk to her most the day as I thought she wouldn't be interested in me.
Little did I know how precious of a heart she has.

Although we made many mistakes with numerous struggles and much of our start was not good,
as I was an atheist and her a Catholic yet we have had the opportunity of growing to know and love the Lord together for much of our journey.

so precious. thank you.
and now your beautiful family!

[Wade]

Hi Wade - these are good questions...and it sounds like they are coming in response to some experiences that have been less than ideal for you and your family. You are not alone in having a rough time coming into a Conservative Mennonite group. I'm sorry if the road has been bumpy for you and your family. Please don't let it discourage your spiritual journey or your commitment to the way of Jesus!

First let me start by sharing that I too am a seeker who was not born into a plain family by any means. Non-conformity and non-resistance were both convictions that my wife and I came to along the way as a young couple (30+ years ago) - and it was a transition that came at a cost - especially as we related to our families. I would also add Wade that we too have struggled some with how to fit into groups that not only represented a church but a very strong ethno-culture.

In my post that you quoted above, my aim was certainly not to encourage more judgement or put up more barriers (as you have noted, the cultural barriers are already quite formidable at times), but to spur on my fellow Conservative Anabaptists to do a better job at trying to get into the lives and hearts of seekers to better understand the motives behind why seekers come to us in the first place. It is also a recognition that people come to plain communities for all kinds of reasons - with all kinds of motives - including the desire to become part of a culture that, for whatever reason, is attractive to them. I went on to say "This certainly shouldn't affect the welcome they receive, but it does affect how we minister to folks and move them deeper into relationship with Christ and his Kingdom." For both plain people and seekers, all of this really needs to be, at its core, about following Jesus.

Let me say this another way:

• - for Conservative Anabaptists, what we are doing should not primarily be about maintaining safe ethno-cultural boundaries, but about living together as Salt & Light as we faithfully follow Christ...and welcoming & discipling others to join us in that quest.
  - for seekers drawn to Conservative Anabaptist churches, this should not primarily be about trying to be a part of an alternative culture or lifestyle, but about surrendering to the cause of Christ, and joining with other believers in seeking to live out a faithful witness for his Kingdom.

Anything else and we end up in the weeds!

Thanks Dan.

[steve-in-kville]

I hesitated to write this, but feel like I really should. This is not answering the direct question, which I will do at a later time, hopefully this weekend. Maybe I should start my own thread, which I may do at some point...

In the past few months, I have received PM's from a few folks here on MD. Some want to know the specifics of what brought me to a conservative setting. Others want to know what happened that caused me to leave. Others are attending a conservative church and are having issues "fitting in."

I will make this statement, not to discourage anyone, but that my heart and mind are at peace. Trying to come from the outside, you will encounter one of the following reactions:

1) you will be looked at with suspicion and held at arm's length.

2) You will be a "novelty" of sorts, or even perceived as a "trophy" to them.

3) More likely, a combination of the two!!

Of the dozen or so married couples that I know, who went from nothing to conservative, only one is still conservative. However, almost none of their children hung around.

If someone comes into the church and marries someone who grew up in the church, there's a better chance of success.

So basically, most of these groups want "pedigreed" people within their churches. Bottom line. I lived it for 25+ years.

[Wade]

I think your input is important here Steve.

The problem is that if things don't work out so well for us newcomers, then what are our alternatives?
I for one am not interested in going backwards spiritually (although I may have in ways...)

I want to stir up thoughts I guess from both sides in working through these challenges together if possible.

I do believe both ethnic and non really would like to see us all finding biblical ways to be part of His church.

[Hats Off]

I hesitated to write this, but feel like I really should. This is not answering the direct question, which I will do at a later time, hopefully this weekend. Maybe I should start my own thread, which I may do at some point...

In the past few months, I have received PM's from a few folks here on MD. Some want to know the specifics of what brought me to a conservative setting. Others want to know what happened that caused me to leave. Others are attending a conservative church and are having issues "fitting in."

I will make this statement, not to discourage anyone, but that my heart and mind are at peace. Trying to come from the outside, you will encounter one of the following reactions:

1) you will be looked at with suspicion and held at arm's length.

2) You will be a "novelty" of sorts, or even perceived as a "trophy" to them.

3) More likely, a combination of the two!!In my experience, which is more limited than yours, you are probably right on in your assessment.

Of the dozen or so married couples that I know, who went from nothing to conservative, only one is still conservative. However, almost none of their children hung around.

If someone comes into the church and marries someone who grew up in the church, there's a better chance of success.Again, in my experience, this is correct. Those that I can think of have remained successfully.

So basically, most of these groups want "pedigreed" people within their churches. Bottom line. I lived it for 25+ years.

I don't think it is that we really want only pedigreed people; we just are not good at handling the transition period. The first few years you are a novelty and a trophy and we lift you up too high. Then sooner or later you disappoint us somehow and we forget that you are still in transition. We need to recognize that it probably takes close to a generation to become "us"! Again, I am desperately sorry when we do fail you.

[Ernie]

I will make this statement, not to discourage anyone, but that my heart and mind are at peace. Trying to come from the outside, you will encounter one of the following reactions:

1) you will be looked at with suspicion and held at arm's length.

2) You will be a "novelty" of sorts, or even perceived as a "trophy" to them.

3) More likely, a combination of the two!!

Of the dozen or so married couples that I know, who went from nothing to conservative, only one is still conservative. However, almost none of their children hung around.

If someone comes into the church and marries someone who grew up in the church, there's a better chance of success.

So basically, most of these groups want "pedigreed" people within their churches. Bottom line. I lived it for 25+ years.

I think this happens in the most "pedigreed" churches and is a dynamic found in most pedigreed churches, Anabaptist or non-Anabaptist. A similar thing happens among Mormons in Utah. It is human nature. Believe it or not, Anabaptists were born with the same nature that everyone else was born with.

That is why I hesitate to recommend just any conservative Anabaptist church to folks looking for an Anabaptist church. The DNA of many churches is going to work against folks from NAB being able to belong.

[Wayne in Maine]

I will make this statement, not to discourage anyone, but that my heart and mind are at peace. Trying to come from the outside, you will encounter one of the following reactions:

1) you will be looked at with suspicion and held at arm's length.

2) You will be a "novelty" of sorts, or even perceived as a "trophy" to them.

3) More likely, a combination of the two!!

Of the dozen or so married couples that I know, who went from nothing to conservative, only one is still conservative. However, almost none of their children hung around.

If someone comes into the church and marries someone who grew up in the church, there's a better chance of success.

So basically, most of these groups want "pedigreed" people within their churches. Bottom line. I lived it for 25+ years.

I think this happens in the most "pedigreed" churches and is a dynamic found in most pedigreed churches, Anabaptist or non-Anabaptist. A similar thing happens among Mormons in Utah. It is human nature. Believe it or not, Anabaptists were born with the same nature that everyone else was born with.

That is why I hesitate to recommend just any conservative Anabaptist church to folks looking for an Anabaptist church. The DNA of many churches is going to work against folks from NAB being able to belong.

I think this topic got off track.

There are dynamics both ways, and I think Dan's comment was directed to the problem of NABs who, in many outward ways, are appealing to some Conservative or Old Order groups but who in fact are seeking not to follow Jesus in the manner of authentic Anabaptist discipleship, but who want to be Amish or Mennonite as a matter of lifestyle or because of other non-spiritual reasons. Their appearance and words have no roots in "authentic, premium, radical Christianity" .

I think this also extends to individuals and movements that Anabaptists (of all stripes) let influence them. We all have to be discerning.