CAM Molestation Issue

[Josh]

I'm sitting here shaking my head, just truly astounded at your reasoning here. Heaven help us.

Welcome to the last 4 1/2 years of my life.

I’m not going to call out specific names, but a number of folks here on this board espoused this reasoning to me with the situations I was dealing with. It’s a widespread cultural problem.

Interestingly enough none of us just wait for God to do something when, say, someone is wearing shorts and flip flops to church.

[queserasera_2]

You know, the Scripture might shed some light..... When God got tired of waiting for Israel to be holy, He used foreign nations to oppress them and bring them back to Himself.
Yes, it's obvious Trudy has a bias. I don't always like her tone and felt she was abrupt and pushy with such an old man as Harold H. HOWEVER, if only even half of what she has uncovered and reported is true, we should be nowhere but on our faces. The rich has oppressed the poor, the powerful has abused the weak. God has much to say about that. Her expose has done us all a service.

This idea that we should be quiet and sit on our hands and let more little boys be brutally raped by someone who claims to represent Jesus is ludicrous. Let judgement begin at the house of God!

I have no doubt that JM's church leadership and the CAM leadership did the best they knew at the time. I believe they have Godly hearts. However, if they'd dug around at all for wisdom, they would have known much better. The information on pedophilia has been around awhile. 30 years ago, I wasn't allowed to ever be alone with a certain uncle. It's not rocket science if you bother to read and study. This is why they MUST issue an abject apology. I do not believe that they thought they were putting little boys at risk when they sent him back. However, because of the incredible cost of that lapse in wisdom, they must resign. I will not send my money there unless they do.

Signed,
CAM donor
Former CAM employee
Conservative anabaptist

[Grace]

[Grace]

Sorry repeat post.

[Grace]

You know, the Scripture might shed some light..... When God got tired of waiting for Israel to be holy, He used foreign nations to oppress them and bring them back to Himself.
Yes, it's obvious Trudy has a bias. I don't always like her tone and felt she was abrupt and pushy with such an old man as Harold H. HOWEVER, if only even half of what she has uncovered and reported is true, we should be nowhere but on our faces. The rich has oppressed the poor, the powerful has abused the weak. God has much to say about that. Her expose has done us all a service.

This idea that we should be quiet and sit on our hands and let more little boys be brutally raped by someone who claims to represent Jesus is ludicrous. Let judgement begin at the house of God!

I have no doubt that JM's church leadership and the CAM leadership did the best they knew at the time. I believe they have Godly hearts. However, if they'd dug around at all for wisdom, they would have known much better. The information on pedophilia has been around awhile. 30 years ago, I wasn't allowed to ever be alone with a certain uncle. It's not rocket science if you bother to read and study. This is why they MUST issue an abject apology. I do not believe that they thought they were putting little boys at risk when they sent him back. However, because of the incredible cost of that lapse in wisdom, they must resign. I will not send my money there unless they do.

Signed,
CAM donor
Former CAM employee
Conservative anabaptist

Thank you for a well written post. I trust you were not indirectly referring to Trudy when you used the analogy "When God got tired of waiting for Israel to be holy, He used foreign nations to oppress them and bring them back to Himself". Because after God used those foreign nations to punish and oppress the nation of Israel, He then punished and destroyed the ones doing the oppressing. God told Abram in Genesis 15:13 that his descendants would spend four hundred years in a foreign land as slaves. Then in Genesis 15:14 God said He would “bring judgment on the nation that they serve”.

I sincerely hope Trudy's heart is at the right place and I wish her the best, even if she is biased and I don't appreciated some of her tactics.

As for sending CAM money: Should we be Punishing the poor and needy people around the world, because of the mistakes of people in leadership? I guess each person has to decide that for themselves.

[blackfriar]

Interestingly enough none of us just wait for God to do something when, say, someone is wearing shorts and flip flops to church.

Exactly right. The hypocrisy is just staggering.

[temporal1]

Grace:
.. As for sending CAM money: Should we be Punishing the poor and needy people around the world, because of the mistakes of people in leadership? I guess each person has to decide that for themselves.

que has a credible witness, personal experience, respect of others, deep heart for Jesus and her community.

(i believe) when different members are speaking of withholding funds, this is a “conditional” and, hopefully, very temporary, situation, i.e., “no money, UNTIL action is taken,”
NOT, “no money, ever again.”

hopefully, CAM has ample reserves to carry through this period. if action is not forthcoming, then maybe it’s all far worse than it immediately appears.

there is no heart to further hurt children. i don’t believe that’s in contest.

what CAM is facing now, resulting from outside gov investigation, stands to be far more serious than members attempting to pressure rapid good faith action.

i don’t intend to say giving is right or wrong. that’s a personal decision, and a difficult one.
i do not see bad intent by either decision. we are tasked with making decisions. God determines outcomes.

que is well able to speak for herself, and of this situation. probably i should be quiet.
if i’m amiss, i hope and trust she will correct me.

i think we’re saying much the same thing.
the “conditional” and “temporary” parts are important. i think this is the intent, the words have not been used. i may not be understanding correctly. (i.e., i’m asking as much as stating.)

[Aurien]

Absolutely not. Don’t put words in my mouth. I merely asked questions In a prior post and the response was “heaven help us”. Asking questions is part of testing the spirits.

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I misunderstand your post.

[queserasera_2]

Thank you for a well written post. I trust you were not indirectly referring to Trudy when you used the analogy "When God got tired of waiting for Israel to be holy, He used foreign nations to oppress them and bring them back to Himself". Because after God used those foreign nations to punish and oppress the nation of Israel, He then punished and destroyed the ones doing the oppressing. God told Abram in Genesis 15:13 that his descendants would spend four hundred years in a foreign land as slaves. Then in Genesis 15:14 God said He would “bring judgment on the nation that they serve”.

I sincerely hope Trudy's heart is at the right place and I wish her the best, even if she is biased and I don't appreciated some of her tactics.

As for sending CAM money: Should we be Punishing the poor and needy people around the world, because of the mistakes of people in leadership? I guess each person has to decide that for themselves.

I was not meaning to call Trudy wicked or whatever at all. I just meant sometimes God has to use unexpected means from unexpected places when we're not functioning as we should...

Unfortunately money talks and since CAM is apparently saying that they can't act conscientiously because they are being stewards of other peoples' money, I must find another steward. It's God's money, and I expect God's principles to be followed. I fear that short of a massive donor pullout, we will not see change. It grieves me to say that, but I am seeing protectionism in their actions thus far. I undertand there is to be another meeting of the higher ups tomorrow and I am hoping and praying for better things.

[Dan Z]

Unfortunately money talks and since CAM is apparently saying that they can't act conscientiously because they are being stewards of other peoples' money, I must find another steward. It's God's money, and I expect God's principles to be followed. I fear that short of a massive donor pullout, we will not see change. It grieves me to say that, but I am seeing protectionism in their actions thus far. I undertand there is to be another meeting of the higher ups tomorrow and I am hoping and praying for better things.

I expect something concrete will come out of tomorrow's meeting.

The initial reaction so far, with minimal info, has been a frustration for the supporting community, and was likely due to one or all of the following: 1) ongoing internal investigations that had yet to be completed, 2) requests from law enforcement not to say too much and corrupt their investigations, 3) advice from lawyers concerning protecting CAM and some of its employees from legal and financial jeopardy both in the US and Haiti.

From what I am sensing, I suspect the board and leadership of CAM have heard loud and clear the reaction of their community. Their future as an organization is likely dependent on how quickly, transparently and seriously they handle things from here on forward.