Unrepentant Hearts: Anabaptist viewpoints?

[MaxPC]

Yes, the children belong to both parents.
To answer Josh’s question: the man was raised Catholic the woman raised Lutheran.

Okay... here's my train of thought on this: I'm the last person who wants to break a family up. Having both parents is essential. Also, if you tell them they need live separately, but they still maintain "relations," you're really not gaining any ground. Fornication is fornication regardless if they reside under the same roof or not.

Is there anything keeping them from being married? Money? Commitment?

That's my initial response anyway. It ain't right but it ain't wrong.

According to them, taxes. They say their state tax code structures apparently levy heavier taxes on married couples than they do on two unmarrieds with dependents.

I also suspect it’s a reluctance on the man’s part to commit himself to the woman’s family by marriage. I don’t know anything solid, just from pieces he’s dropped in conversations.

[steve-in-kville]

According to them, taxes. They say their state tax code structures apparently levy heavier taxes on married couples than they do on two unmarrieds with dependents.

I actually can believe that, as I work with a lady in a similar situation. Also, health insurance may play in there as well.

[francis]

Yes, the children belong to both parents.
To answer Josh’s question: the man was raised Catholic the woman raised Lutheran.

Okay... here's my train of thought on this: I'm the last person who wants to break a family up. Having both parents is essential. Also, if you tell them they need live separately, but they still maintain "relations," you're really not gaining any ground. Fornication is fornication regardless if they reside under the same roof or not.

Is there anything keeping them from being married? Money? Commitment?

That's my initial response anyway. It ain't right but it ain't wrong.

According to them, taxes. They say their state tax code structures apparently levy heavier taxes on married couples than they do on two unmarrieds with dependents.

I also suspect it’s a reluctance on the man’s part to commit himself to the woman’s family by marriage. I don’t know anything solid, just from pieces he’s dropped in conversations.

Could they be married in a church ceremony but not by the state? I'm not sure if that's possible but that could be a tax workaround.

[MaxPC]

Okay... here's my train of thought on this: I'm the last person who wants to break a family up. Having both parents is essential. Also, if you tell them they need live separately, but they still maintain "relations," you're really not gaining any ground. Fornication is fornication regardless if they reside under the same roof or not.

Is there anything keeping them from being married? Money? Commitment?

That's my initial response anyway. It ain't right but it ain't wrong.

According to them, taxes. They say their state tax code structures apparently levy heavier taxes on married couples than they do on two unmarrieds with dependents.

I also suspect it’s a reluctance on the man’s part to commit himself to the woman’s family by marriage. I don’t know anything solid, just from pieces he’s dropped in conversations.

Could they be married in a church ceremony but not by the state? I'm not sure if that's possible but that could be a tax workaround.

I am not sure. I'll have to check on that. It would certainly be a good solution. But if the man is not fond of her family, that may still present a problem. How would you approach him about that solution?

[RZehr]

I think that is a horrible “solution”. If they are married, they might as well not hide it or pretend they aren’t for monetary gain, whether that is taxes or food stamps.

Either get married and accept reality and it’s responsibilities, or quit living together. Its time for a 180 degree change. The church should help as needed.

[MaxPC]

I think that is a horrible “solution”. If they are married, they might as well not hide it or pretend they aren’t for monetary gain.

I hadn't thought of that, thank you RZehr. How would you approach this man about his unmarried state? I am certainly concerned for his spiritual life and how he is living in sin.

[Josh]

Most worldly people who cohabit do so because divorce seems like it is inevitable.

Generally I focus on sharing the gospel with people and allowing Jesus to change their lives, not nitpick on some lifestyle issue. I don’t view cohabiting as any worse than the casual divorce culture we live in today. And I certainly wouldn’t start by accusing the man of being “scared to commit”.

[steve-in-kville]

I wish I had a better answer... but they have children together.

Can they live apart and successfully co-parent? Sure. But then what if one dates another? Now you have step-parents. I'm not saying that the children justify a fornication issue, but really need to look at the whole picture here.

Sometimes the best we can do is be a friend and a good example.

[RZehr]

There was a young man in Oregon who got his girlfriend pregnant. He was in and out of jail, sort of a skin head. He was released from jail, became a Christian and wanted to do what was right. I'd describe her as deciding to become a Christian too, but it never really soaked down from the head to the heart. It was hard to say that she ever really was converted although she went along with him. I think she just wanted to please him.

He was told that fornication is wrong and that marriage is Gods design for mothers and fathers. However, given both of their immaturity, they were both told to pray about it and let the others pray about it before taking the next step. After a week or so, they got tired of waiting, and he knew that marriage was the right thing to do, and so they just went and got married.

They immediately after marriage began having many children. I think in the next 10 years they had about 8 children. At the 10 year mark, they have returned to a life of sin, returned to some drug use, permanently lose all their children to the state, are divorced, and with other people.

I guess I don't view marriage as a quick fix. Based on my thin experience and the injunction for Christians to marry only in the Lord (which I don't believe happened in the above account), I tend to believe they should separate for a time and become truly born again. If they aren't truly born again, they shouldn't get married. I also think of the verse about giving up family for the sake of Christ is relevant here. Given the fact that they aren't married, the mother or father must be willing to give up the other if the other is not a Christian.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The world splits families every day over selfishness, and thinks that is normal. They prove every day that the human being can live with this travesty.
But the world thinks it is the epitome of evil for a family to split over following Jesus.

[steve-in-kville]

I guess I don't view marriage as a quick fix.

I agree with this and I'll tell you why: I know of a handful of situations in the plain community where a teenage girl shows up pregnant. The church's "quick fix" is to obviously get 'em married quick so the child isn't born out of wedlock. Sounds easy, right? Funny thing is, none of those marriages work out too well, or at least not the ones I am familiar with.

I also know of a few situations where girl doesn't get married, has the baby and later on meets a wonderful man than can be a good husband and a good father to a child that isn't his. Those women go on to be very strong Christian women and raise very strong Christian children.