Can anyone tell me more about the Holdeman Mennonites?

[Jennifer]

If I could change the subject for a moment. When I visited a Holdeman Church, I kept wondering when the basket would get passed around to give tithes or support. But it never came around. And since their church service is so short compared to most Mennonite Churches, only about an hour, where and when do you give your tithes or whatever you want to call it. Is there some little box somewhere that you put it in as you walk in or leave? How does it work there?

[Wade]

I did not really want to be offensive - some people we have known quite well have gone with Holdeman and what I see I can respect and I tend not to go further.

Thank you Hats Off. I appreciate that.

I do not deal well, emotionally, with being accused on a regular basis of being an "attempted adulterer". It's just completely demoralising. I don't really know what to do about it except to eventually wall myself off from people who feel that way about me.

In the long run, I feel like eventually I will end up like all the other Holdemans: not really wanting to talk to any other conservative Anabaptist people because it just hurts too much. There's too much of a risk the conversation turns into something extremely negative about my church within 5 minutes, and then it becomes personal too. "You think nobody outside of your church is saved." "You just want to remarry which will be sin." "Your church shuns people who leave, that's wrong." "John Holdeman was a false prophet."

I really wish it did not have to be this way.

Is this what you do to others with your accusations?

[Ernie]

The best way to explain this is that Holdemans view other conservative Anabaptist churches the same way they'd view the megachurch down the road, a Baptist church, or a Catholic church. One that probably has sincere believers in it, but not all. They would view it as a place where some gospel doctrines are preached, but not consistently. Since they aren't part of that church, they generally refrain from passing specific judgment on it, unless they have gotten to know people there well and discussed these things with them.
I'm not sure how this is that much different from other conservative Anabaptists.

Yes. This is the way I view the Holdeman church.

I view the Holdeman church as a place where some gospel doctrines are preached, but not others. One that probably has sincere believers in it, but not all.
I would encourage someone to go to a Holdeman church for fellowship but I would not encourage them to join. I might advise the same for a megachurch, a god and country Baptist church, or an Apostolic church. I would even advise the same for some ultra churches, some intermediate churches, moderate, progressive conservative, etc.

[Jennifer]

And if I could break in here again. I noticed that the atmosphere in a Holdeman church is more relaxed. With members in the pews actually speaking or commenting to the minister without the strict formality of a typical conservative church. So there was actual audience participation there which seems different.

[Ernie]

I don't think the Holdeman view of divorce and remarriage is that different from the general conservative Anabaptist view. The only difference is that they give those who sinned (before joining the Holdeman church) a pass.
Am I saying this correctly?

This position makes it possible for lots of divorced and remarried folks to join an Anabaptist church, but once they are in, they can't leave the church unless they get excommunicated.
This is to me the definition of a cult.
It doesn't really matter to me whether they call themselves OTC or not if this is they way they treat folks who leave their organization.
I feel a need to keep calling attention to this periodically because this is what I understand Jesus and the Apostles to speak directly against. And I don't want some poor unsuspecting soul to get duped into something that I believe is so against the heart of God.

[KingdomBuilder]

A small sample, yes, but I really enjoyed the time is visited a Holdeman church and I still enjoy talking with some.

They're more approachable and relatable than other CMs seem to be, in my experience.

[Josh]

If I could change the subject for a moment. When I visited a Holdeman Church, I kept wondering when the basket would get passed around to give tithes or support. But it never came around. And since their church service is so short compared to most Mennonite Churches, only about an hour, where and when do you give your tithes or whatever you want to call it. Is there some little box somewhere that you put it in as you walk in or leave? How does it work there?

A basket is passed around during Sunday school, although there is a trend taking place to have an offering box instead so that giving can be done in "secret".

There are some people who think you should give cash or else not expect a year end tax statement from the deacon, but this is not a universal view.

Sometimes there are special offerings taken up, but if serious funds need to be raised, then fundraisers get organised. This is a big part of the duties of being on a school board.

[Jennifer]

That's why I didn't see it. I didn't come in early for the Sunday school.

[Josh]

Yes. This is the way I view the Holdeman church.

I view the Holdeman church as a place where some gospel doctrines are preached, but not others. One that probably has sincere believers in it, but not all.
I would encourage someone to go to a Holdeman church for fellowship but I would not encourage them to join. I might advise the same for a megachurch, a god and country Baptist church, or an Apostolic church. I would even advise the same for some ultra churches, some intermediate churches, moderate, progressive conservative, etc.

Thank you Ernie. I can relate well to this kind of thinking.

[Josh]

That's why I didn't see it. I didn't come in early for the Sunday school.

If people know you are a visitor they might even hide the baskets out of a desire to keep giving a bit more secret, or else to make visitors not feel obligated to give.

I actually have no idea if baskets get passed in the womens' classes.