Anabaptism, the New Testament, and capital punishment

[Jazman]

Reading through this thread also brought this thought to mind... and more specifically related to capital punishment, etc

It does not cease to amaze me the lengths Bible reading Christians will go - in using the Bible to defend, justify, excuse, ignore the fruit of or the reality of God's permissive will... instead of seeking, praying, desiring for God's perfect will...
In my understanding of God's character and giver of LIFE, His perfect will for Hasan might be something close to this: he lives till a natural death and along the way he discovers forgiveness & love through Jesus Christ and commits the remainder of his days to living into that wherever he finds himself, including life imprisonment as consequence of his prior sins.

Men, particularly men with power, think they know better and act accordingly, which God Allows them to do (free will) But that's His permissive will... I don't want to, nor feel a need to, nor feel encouragement from Scripture to defend, excuse, justify God's permissive will because most of the time that's just defending, excusing, justifying the choices of sinful men. often times exercising power/authority they haven't earned or shown to use well.

Sometimes it feels like some christians WANT God's permissive will (and all the bad stuff that comes downstream of that) rather than God's perfect will...("Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...").
(There's an interesting example of this in Scripture where the Pharisees seem to want Jesus to endorse their divorce permission structure but Jesus tells them God only allowed them that because of... but in reality He is calling them to something more perfect. I forget the exact passage; feel free to share)

I think the issue of capital punishment is one of these things...

[barnhart]

My sister-in-law homeschooled with a lot of Abeka curriculum. Once I noticed a handwriting exercise from Romans 12 hanging on the fridge. The template verse to be copied said:

"And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good, and acceptable... will of God".

I thought dispensationalism has gone to far when the discomfort with God's perfect will rises to the level it needs to be edited out.

[Judas Maccabeus]

My sister-in-law homeschooled with a lot of Abeka curriculum. Once I noticed a handwriting exercise from Romans 12 hanging on the fridge. The template verse to be copied said:

"And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good, and acceptable... will of God".

I thought dispensationalism has gone to far when the discomfort with God's perfect will rises to the level it needs to be edited out.

I suspect it is the current brand of Reformed Theology that you are actually seeing here

[barnhart]

My sister-in-law homeschooled with a lot of Abeka curriculum. Once I noticed a handwriting exercise from Romans 12 hanging on the fridge. The template verse to be copied said:

"And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good, and acceptable... will of God".

I thought dispensationalism has gone to far when the discomfort with God's perfect will rises to the level it needs to be edited out.

I suspect it is the current brand of Reformed Theology that you are actually seeing here

One produced the other... The seeds were there all along.

[JohnH]

My sister-in-law homeschooled with a lot of Abeka curriculum. Once I noticed a handwriting exercise from Romans 12 hanging on the fridge. The template verse to be copied said:

"And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good, and acceptable... will of God".

I thought dispensationalism has gone to far when the discomfort with God's perfect will rises to the level it needs to be edited out.

I suspect it is the current brand of Reformed Theology that you are actually seeing here

One produced the other... The seeds were there all along.

No, it didn’t. Reformed doctrine started with the Reformation in the 1500s. Dispensationalism came out of John Darby in the 1800s. The two don’t have much to do with each other, other than that John Darby was Protestant, but so are you and I.

[Nomad]

The OT is primarily centered around a national government led by God known as "Israel". The NT is centered around the beginning of a non-national entity known as "Christ body" or "the Church". Trying to meld these 2 OT and NT entities without recognizing their distinct functions and purposes in God's plan will lead to confusion and improper theology...I think.

[JohnH]

The OT is primarily centered around a national government led by God known as "Israel". The NT is centered around the beginning of a non-national entity known as "Christ body" or "the Church". Trying to meld these 2 OT and NT entities without recognizing their distinct functions and purposes in God's plan will lead to confusion and improper theology...I think.

So, where exactly does the NT teach us what Christians are supposed to tell the government to do/not do with regard to sentencing?

[temporal1]

The OT is primarily centered around a national government led by God known as "Israel". The NT is centered around the beginning of a non-national entity known as "Christ body" or "the Church". Trying to meld these 2 OT and NT entities without recognizing their distinct functions and purposes in God's plan will lead to confusion and improper theology...I think.

So, where exactly does the NT teach us what Christians are supposed to tell the government to do/not do with regard to sentencing?

As well, this is an all military matter.

Nidal Malik Hasan, a former Army psychiatrist, killed 13 people and injured over 30 others in a mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2009
The attack, in which Hasan shouted “Allahu Akbar,” was one of the deadliest on U.S. soil since 9/11
. He was convicted in 2013 of 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and sentenced to death ..

For me, confusion.
Regardless, i would not view.

He has had the full benefit of years of due process, something victims do not experience.

[joshuabgood]

The OT is primarily centered around a national government led by God known as "Israel". The NT is centered around the beginning of a non-national entity known as "Christ body" or "the Church". Trying to meld these 2 OT and NT entities without recognizing their distinct functions and purposes in God's plan will lead to confusion and improper theology...I think.

So, where exactly does the NT teach us what Christians are supposed to tell the government to do/not do with regard to sentencing?

Government is not some faceless nameless organization. It is made up of people just like me and you. The extent to which those people practice the teachings and witness of Jesus, is the extent to which salvation is brought to earth as also in heaven. The extent to which they don't, is the extent that earth is still under the rule of the prince of this world.

So insofar as the NT is good for any of us, it is good for those in government. In as much as the principals of the New Kingdom bring salvation, they will bring salvation when practiced by government. So...in my view, yes the NT is for "the government."

[Nomad]

The OT is primarily centered around a national government led by God known as "Israel". The NT is centered around the beginning of a non-national entity known as "Christ body" or "the Church". Trying to meld these 2 OT and NT entities without recognizing their distinct functions and purposes in God's plan will lead to confusion and improper theology...I think.

So, where exactly does the NT teach us what Christians are supposed to tell the government to do/not do with regard to sentencing?

I dont see that the NT says we should tell the governments what to do or what not to do. Maybe you see a place for that in scripture and I would be open to receiving instruction.

The command for us to pray for the governing authorities is something we are to put in action in the NT. Also, Romans 13 does a good job of defining the government's role in this present age.

At times we as Christians will need to make a stand that differs from what the authorities set in motion when they go directly against the commands of God. But even then I dont think that means the Church and governments are directly opposed to one another...or at least the Christian should not preach it that way. The one we oppose isn't human...nor is evil something we should label a particular political party as. We need to look past the face or party and see the powers of darkness that are influencing the individual/ government (Eph 6:12)...that is the enemy we oppose, not the individual or government party in power. We can object and refuse participation in certain policies but Jesus never taught open rebellion or hatred towards a government or individual within the government.