Advice regarding anabaptist church I'm attending

[unknown_dove]

Hi forums,

I'm new here, male, and I have anabaptist heritage from some of my family and cultural influences due to that. I'll keep this somewhat vague because it's a small world, but I need some advice:

I've been visiting a more conservative anabaptist church, Beachy amish leaning, for some time now. They've invited me to their church events and all, generally welcoming. I've offered to do what I can to help out and be part of their community.

I've invited people out to events with me, but I've found it impossible to actually get together with anyone from the church outside of official church events. Such as fellowship at a restaurant, etc. It's been over a year and have been unable to actually make a friend, from the church, willing to meet outside of the church.

I can't help but suspect that it's not just the normal "busy" it really seems to me these people are being discouraged from associating with anyone outside of their church (myself) as a visitor.

Reasons:
Plans ALWAYS fall through. Dates change. Offers to do XYZ sit or disappear.

I just do not understand it. Their "separation" theology makes me think that I'm part of the world being separated from.

My understanding is things are pretty Bishop dependent with Mennonite denominations.

I was inclined to just ask the Bishop about this (It took a couple of months to realize who was the Bishop), but I don't think I should for possibility of causing offense. So I'm posting this here.

To give more context, in spite of my time visiting there, nobody has asked me to join the church. So I really don't get it.

I'm just not dealing with navigating their culture very well, honestly I probably should change churches or denominations altogether.

Is there something in mennonite theology that discourages outside of church association with visitors and discourages informing the visitors of this rule?

[Ernie]

Good morning,

These cultural matters can be really hard to read at at times. I grew up in an insular Mennonite conference but joined the Beachy Amish-Mennonites for about 10 years. The transition was not as hard as someone coming from a non-Plain Anabaptist church, but figuring out the culture and how to read the cues was very challenging.

Some years ago, we took a seeker family to a church in their area. When we arrived and entered the building, everyone just stared at us. Nobody showed us the restrooms. Nobody explained the order of the service and where the children would go for Sunday School. After the service only a couple people stopped by to get acquainted and befriend the visitors. When one sister from that church heard what had happened, she felt very bad and said to the wife, “Our ladies are wonderful. If you would come to our sewing circle, you would find them very warm and friendly.” Our seeker friends were not convinced. Why should a person need to attend a sewing circle to experience warmth and friendship? Why shouldn’t they feel these things on their first visit to a church?

Without knowing you or knowing more about the particular congregation you are attending, I'm not sure that I can say anything with certainty. But I am guessing these folks are not wanting to talk anyone into joining the church and will want you to take that initiative. Many Plain Anabaptists and Beachy's in particular have that posture. For some reason some Plain Anabaptists do not have a goal of adding people to their church from outside the ethnic circle. That may also be a factor in this situation. And then there are subcultures that are so insular that they are not comfortable doing anything outside of the usual.

I could surmise quite a few other things but that is probably not wise. If you PM me, I am glad to dialogue further.

[Soloist]

Hi forums,

I'm new here, male, and I have anabaptist heritage from some of my family and cultural influences due to that. I'll keep this somewhat vague because it's a small world, but I need some advice:

I've been visiting a more conservative anabaptist church, Beachy amish leaning, for some time now. They've invited me to their church events and all, generally welcoming. I've offered to do what I can to help out and be part of their community.

I've invited people out to events with me, but I've found it impossible to actually get together with anyone from the church outside of official church events. Such as fellowship at a restaurant, etc. It's been over a year and have been unable to actually make a friend, from the church, willing to meet outside of the church.

I can't help but suspect that it's not just the normal "busy" it really seems to me these people are being discouraged from associating with anyone outside of their church (myself) as a visitor.

Reasons:
Plans ALWAYS fall through. Dates change. Offers to do XYZ sit or disappear.

I just do not understand it. Their "separation" theology makes me think that I'm part of the world being separated from.

My understanding is things are pretty Bishop dependent with Mennonite denominations.

I was inclined to just ask the Bishop about this (It took a couple of months to realize who was the Bishop), but I don't think I should for possibility of causing offense. So I'm posting this here.

To give more context, in spite of my time visiting there, nobody has asked me to join the church. So I really don't get it.

I'm just not dealing with navigating their culture very well, honestly I probably should change churches or denominations altogether.

Is there something in mennonite theology that discourages outside of church association with visitors and discourages informing the visitors of this rule?

I don’t know Beachy and I’ve found Mennonites differ dramatically from church to church on practice and doctrine.
I would say the not asked to be a member means they are giving you space to think and I’d generally view that as a good thing. One way to evaluate how open they are would be to ask about instruction class. How long they want you to wait would kind of show some additional feedback.
As for the schedule complexity, there might be something to that it’s hard to say. It might be culturally they keep themselves very busy or they don’t like saying no but can’t. And then it might also be they don’t know you well enough to have some close fellowship. I don’t think that it’s from the bishop, though it would be a culture aside from the bishop.

[Soloist]

Wife: have you never been invited to their house? It might be a schedule thing for the other planned activities, but if you’re not being invited to their house, that’s kind of unusual. We got like three invitations our first time. My husband is right though that it differs Church to Church, but if this church is not good at hospitality/community, there are plenty of Mennonite churches that are.

Question though… you were talking about events. What sort of events have you invited them to? if it’s other denominations events, they might not be comfortable doing it and that’s a different story. It might be a theological difference, but there’s not enough information to know for sure. Also, they wouldn’t go somewhere like the fair or bowling or those kind of activities… If it’s something like that, someone should be man enough to tell you instead of make you just wonder what’s going on.

[JohnH]

I would do a few things:

1. Ask to visit with some of their leadership (preferrably a deacon, if they have one, otherwise a minister). Explain to them exactly what you told us and ask if there may be either something in your conduct that is unbecoming, or else if there is perhaps some reason the church is keeping its distance from you. One reason could be they are having major internal problems and don't want to subject a new person to becoming a member and then having to deal with that turmoil.

2. Ask them if they know of a church that might be a good fit for you where you would be appreciated as an applicant to be a new member.

3. Visit other Anabaptist groups. I think the Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (often known as Holdemans) do a very good job with hospitality to new visitors.

4. Also consider finding much more traditional / conservative groups. Some of them are very, very friendly and warm, such as certain New Order Amish groups, or even groups like Swartzentrubers, Hoover Mennonites, Wengers and so forth. If Anabaptist lifestyle/doctrines/practice are what draws you in, this may be a good fit.

[JayP]

I would suggest just having a polite, but blunt conversation about it with the ministry.
Now, if your desire is just getting to know some of them better that is fine. But if your desire is to not be moving toward joining the group, you just want this one foot in, one out status, then it’s not unfair that they do not want the close contact or influence.

I think purpose is important here. If you are looking for more 8nsight 8nto what they are like that is reasonable.

[Soloist]

I would suggest just having a polite, but blunt conversation about it with the ministry.
Now, if your desire is just getting to know some of them better that is fine. But if your desire is to not be moving toward joining the group, you just want this one foot in, one out status, then it’s not unfair that they do not want the close contact or influence.

I think purpose is important here. If you are looking for more 8nsight 8nto what they are like that is reasonable.

Wife: I honestly think though that whether or not he currently has a desire to become a member, this is just so unlike most of the Mennonite/other anabaptist groups I’ve been around. Some of them have dedicated hostess schedules to make sure new people get invited, and you at least have the benefit of that for a few months. Others think a hostess list makes it too unnatural and legalistic because it can become a chore rather than a desire, but at least a few of the people just naturally do it because they believe in the whole hospitality thing.

There might be a point in time that they stop inviting people to Sunday lunch, but it at least happens for a little while, and there are definitely churches that are better at reaching out to outsiders during the week as well. it doesn’t seem like you have to already have a certain level of commitment to get the visitor invitations, and if somebody is evangelically minded (not using it in the political term), they would do it for the people who don’t seem as ready to become members as well.

My thought is that without the community, hospitality, and love, there’s no point in choosing Mennonites over any other mainstream church unless you just like the outfits and written theological statements.

[JohnH]

I visited a place like that a few times.

Years later I learned they were going through terrible internal strife. They were doing seekers a favour to not try to draw them in.

[unknown_dove]

Wife: have you never been invited to their house? It might be a schedule thing for the other planned activities, but if you’re not being invited to their house, that’s kind of unusual. We got like three invitations our first time. My husband is right though that it differs Church to Church, but if this church is not good at hospitality/community, there are plenty of Mennonite churches that are.

Question though… you were talking about events. What sort of events have you invited them to? if it’s other denominations events, they might not be comfortable doing it and that’s a different story. It might be a theological difference, but there’s not enough information to know for sure. Also, they wouldn’t go somewhere like the fair or bowling or those kind of activities… If it’s something like that, someone should be man enough to tell you instead of make you just wonder what’s going on.

I have been invited to their houses and gone when they do rotating luncheons, which was really special and I appreciate it.

It's just when I try to host back, or do something/anything with members, it never pans out. So I can't really make "church" friends.