Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

[JohnH]

What do Christians do when there are allegations of kids being mistreated? Its not a rhetorical question. Its a request for reasonable dialogue.

I have yet to hear of anyone hiring a hostile, outside investigator to investigate themselves.

As far as organisations go, if you want an outside, hostile investigator to investigate an organisation, that needs to be set up in an organisation's bylaws ahead of time. I suppose there could be an "all hands" meeting of BMA membership (however that is defined) to decide to change the bylaws and hire one now.

[flyingnorm]

What do Christians do when there are allegations of kids being mistreated? Its not a rhetorical question. Its a request for reasonable dialogue.

I have yet to hear of anyone hiring a hostile, outside investigator to investigate themselves.

As far as organisations go, if you want an outside, hostile investigator to investigate an organisation, that needs to be set up in an organisation's bylaws ahead of time. I suppose there could be an "all hands" meeting of BMA membership (however that is defined) to decide to change the bylaws and hire one now.

Its not clear to me that an outside investigation should be automatically assumed to be hostile. Isn’t that assumption an admission of potential guilt?

Would it not be better to have an audit be done to show that things are fine if they are and what things need to be corrected if they do need correction?

Why protect ourselves?

There is not one upside. Nobody comes out ahead by keeping anyone in the dark, except those that truly need people to be held in darkness in order to advance their hidden agenda.

How should Christians respond?

[JohnH]

Its not clear to me that an outside investigation should be automatically assumed to be hostile. Isn’t that assumption an admission of potential guilt?

Would it not be better to have an audit be done to show that things are fine if they are and what things need to be corrected if they do need correction?

Why protect ourselves?

There is not one upside. Nobody comes out ahead by keeping anyone in the dark, except those that truly need people to be held in darkness in order to advance their hidden agenda.

How should Christians respond?

If BMA members want an "audit" of the BMA organisation, then they'd have to go ahead and organise one and pass whatever corporate resolutions are necessary to do that.

[flyingnorm]

I understand the decision making process. My question isn’t about how to count votes.

My question is whether or not an external investigation is a good ethical moral wise Godly idea when kids have been harmed and tensions have arisen.

My question isn’t about the popularity of such an idea. Many terrible ideas have been popularized in history. Many Godly ideas have been silenced in history.

Where does the idea of external analysis and the giving of an account fit in the experience of those that claim to be the body of Christ?

[JohnH]

I understand the decision making process. My question isn’t about how to count votes.

My question is whether or not an external investigation is a good ethical moral wise Godly idea when kids have been harmed and tensions have arisen.

Who would decide what is "external" and "independent"?

What would the purpose of the findings? Who would see the preliminary results?

Where does the idea of external analysis and the giving of an account fit in the experience of those that claim to be the body of Christ?

I don't think it does. I don't see anywhere where the church is told to hire "independent, external investigators".

[flyingnorm]

What is the church supposed to do with crime?

[ken_sylvania]

What is the church supposed to do with crime?

Put them out of the church - unless it's a case of (obey God rather than men).
Them that are without God judges.

[JohnH]

What is the church supposed to do with crime?

Put them out of the church - unless it's a case of (obey God rather than men).
Them that are without God judges.

Agreed. As far as I know, BMA personnel have yet to be charged with crimes, convicted of them etc., with the exception of that one pastor who was convicted a long time ago, failed to disclose it, and BMA revoked his credentials when the situation became known.

[flyingnorm]

How should individuals become charged or convicted of crime?

Should suspected crime be reported or investigated or ignored?

What is a man supposed to do with information disclosed to him or discovered by him?

Say he follows the path of reporting suspected crime. A vast majority of crime reported never leads to conviction.

Is a man supposed to just be ok with alleged crimes lacking court conviction?

Or should he ask the church to become transparent and submit to people who can look at issues and propose correction?

Is the church doomed to a path of self destruction and corruption with no mechanism to seek correction and repentance?

[JohnH]

How should individuals become charged or convicted of crime?

A prosecutor convenes a grand jury and presents evidence. If the grand jury decides there is sufficient evidence, they return an indictment, and the prosecutor can then bring charges. Then a judge and jury hear evidence from both sides and decide if it is enough for a conviction.

Should suspected crime be reported or investigated or ignored?

That depends. I don't call the police on every single suspect I see anywhere. Sometimes I do, usually a drunk driver on the road. Anyone can call the government, though, and report a crime. Investigating it is a decision up to the government.

What is a man supposed to do with information disclosed to him or discovered by him?

I suppose it depends on the information. If you are a mandated reported, I would follow applicable laws in any case.

Say he follows the path of reporting suspected crime. A vast majority of crime reported never leads to conviction.

Yes, most crimes are never even indicted, let alone charged or convicted.

Is a man supposed to just be ok with alleged crimes lacking court conviction?

If no court has jurisdiction then effectively there is no law broken and no crime committed.

Or should he ask the church to become transparent and submit to people who can look at issues and propose correction?

In Anabaptist church circles I expect members to confess their sins and be open to reproof, repentance, and eventual reconciliation.

Is the church doomed to a path of self destruction and corruption with no mechanism to seek correction and repentance?

Yes, churches without proper church discipline are indeed doomed. If they have a long history of overlooking sin, they obviously lack mechanisms to seek correction and repentance.