Categorizing the Brethren

[steve-in-kville]

Conservative Brethren
and
Conservative Baptist Brethren

One of them is what we call "Freystown" and the other "Millback". Yeah, it's complicated.

[Josh]

There are also Old Brethren which are essentially similar to Old German Baptist Brethren - New Conference.

The term Old Brethren has a few different meanings, depending. Some may lump everything from the Bible Brethren on down as "old Brethren." And then there is the reference you gave.

As a casual reference to historical or more conservative Brethren groups, they sometimes get called "old Brethren" back here in the motherland, but as a formal title, the actual moniker of the "Old Brethren Church" belongs to the group that broke off of the Old German Baptist Brethren in 1913 and 1915, and split again in the early 2000s over whether marriage is defined by intercourse or a vow... The group pushing for the "intercourse" position are now referred to as the Yellow Creek Old Brethren, I believe, and consists mostly of a couple families. Ernie is correct that the rest of the Old Brethren are most similar to the OGBBC-NewConference.

The last time I was around such people they called themselves Petition 1 and Petition 2.

They also said their definition was more once someone cohabits, etc., basically living/doing what married people do, they consider that couple married. They actually made a very convincing argument.

That group is a bit more conservative eg in dress matters.

The two groups fellowshipped rather warmly when I attended church with them, greeting one another, and even me; I appreciated the non-sectarianness as compared to what I am accustomed to in the Mennonite world.

[Heirbyadoption]

The term Old Brethren has a few different meanings, depending. Some may lump everything from the Bible Brethren on down as "old Brethren." And then there is the reference you gave.

As a casual reference to historical or more conservative Brethren groups, they sometimes get called "old Brethren" back here in the motherland, but as a formal title, the actual moniker of the "Old Brethren Church" belongs to the group that broke off of the Old German Baptist Brethren in 1913 and 1915, and split again in the early 2000s over whether marriage is defined by intercourse or a vow... The group pushing for the "intercourse" position are now referred to as the Yellow Creek Old Brethren, I believe, and consists mostly of a couple families. Ernie is correct that the rest of the Old Brethren are most similar to the OGBBC-NewConference.

The last time I was around such people they called themselves Petition 1 and Petition 2.

They also said their definition was more once someone cohabits, etc., basically living/doing what married people do, they consider that couple married. They actually made a very convincing argument.

That group is a bit more conservative eg in dress matters.

The two groups fellowshipped rather warmly when I attended church with them, greeting one another, and even me; I appreciated the non-sectarianness as compared to what I am accustomed to in the Mennonite world.

That's interesting! I'm friends (and cousins) to quite a few of them and have never heard any of them (in either group) refer to themselves or the other group as Petition 1 or 2. I'll ask about that sometime. And I'm not sure who you chatted with in the Yellow Creekers, but all I can tell you is that I was fairly involved in the conversation back when they were wrangling over it (I attended with them regularly), and there was actually a couple who had married and one of them had slept with a partner prior to said marriage, and the Yellow Creekers were contending that the then current marriage was adulterous. But there are always numerous perspectives among any group when things get up in the air, so who knows...

[Josh]

I visited with them at AIC a few years ago, near Warsaw, Indiana. Very delightful folks. Went to church at the meetinghouse near there.

The Baers were in attendance which always leads to a good time.

[steve-in-kville]

That's interesting! I'm friends (and cousins) to quite a few of them and have never heard any of them (in either group) refer to themselves or the other group as Petition 1 or 2. I'll ask about that sometime. And I'm not sure who you chatted with in the Yellow Creekers, but all I can tell you is that I was fairly involved in the conversation back when they were wrangling over it (I attended with them regularly), and there was actually a couple who had married and one of them had slept with a partner prior to said marriage, and the Yellow Creekers were contending that the then current marriage was adulterous. But there are always numerous perspectives among any group when things get up in the air, so who knows...

My BIL is an expert on all things conservative Anabaptist. Next time I see him I'll ask about the Petition stuff. Never heard of it myself.

[Elmer]

Here is a list of the Old Order Brethren Groups. It does not include the Old Order River Brethren or Bible Brethren as their origin is different than the German Baptist Brethren.

https://groups.etown.edu/amishstudies/f ... n_2023.pdf

[Elmer]

And here is an interesting post about a Brethren Chorus made up of the conservative segment of what used to be part of the Church of the Brethren.

https://dorishigh.com/2025/06/11/the-br ... -presents/

[joshuabgood]

And here is an interesting post about a Brethren Chorus made up of the conservative segment of what used to be part of the Church of the Brethren.

https://dorishigh.com/2025/06/11/the-br ... -presents/

I see a few of our patrons in the pics. And the elder in charge is my business administrator.

[Ernie]

Does anybody know where I can find the brethren chart of schisms, that I think was produced by Frank Reed?

[the-real-steve]

Does anybody know where I can find the brethren chart of schisms, that I think was produced by Frank Reed?

I have a paper copy of this somewhere. Let me see what I can do. A bunch has changed since that was drew up, though.