Appalachian Mennonite Church

[AndersonD]

Members are supposed to listen to the report that is read once or twice each year, take it seriously, and make proper application in the spirit of the report. Weaverland Conference is insistent that their report is not a "rule book" or "discipline" or "standards" as termed by more Fundamentalist conferences.

Do you know who draws up the report?

Weaverland has a very specific list of approved vehicles, for instance. But I agree there's a stronger appeal to the conscience than following the letter.

[Ernie]

Members are supposed to listen to the report that is read once or twice each year, take it seriously, and make proper application in the spirit of the report. Weaverland Conference is insistent that their report is not a "rule book" or "discipline" or "standards" as termed by more Fundamentalist conferences.

Do you know who draws up the report?

Weaverland has a very specific list of approved vehicles, for instance. But I agree there's a stronger appeal to the conscience than following the letter.

Tape players [they may have updated the language now, I'm not sure] and cameras for example are on the list of prohibited devices, but hardly anybody other than the ordained folks follow this, and I hear that even some of them are maybe not following this either.
But then everyone drives black cars. It sort of depends on the topic as to how much pressure there is to conform.

[silentreader]

Members are supposed to listen to the report that is read once or twice each year, take it seriously, and make proper application in the spirit of the report. Weaverland Conference is insistent that their report is not a "rule book" or "discipline" or "standards" as termed by more Fundamentalist conferences.

Do you know who draws up the report?

If it is the same in the US as in Canada the report is drawn up mostly by the deacons and is based on the counsel of the brotherhood which is received at the semi-annual Counsel Meetings held before Communion.

[JayP]

I do not think these statements about Appalachian are wrong per se but miss a bit of the nuance.
App is best scene as part of the ongoing struggle within Eastern about technology. Being large EPMC has the problem so a membership ranging from folks that are, in all other qualities, fitting in and supporting their standards just fine BUT have business pressures to use the internet then a group that what’s to fully reject any internet use. And lots of in between places as well.

FWWIW, having talked to many in all the sides, it is a very rough thing to figure out In this case some just picked up their ball and went home to form App.

I think and have discussed with EPMC ministry that the have an institutional problem. Their traditional process of dealing with issues does NOT move fast enough to resolve unfolding tech issues. What I mean is, they begin looking at say a basic mobile phone. By the time the decide what they will and will not allow the tech and real world friction points have moved so far from the original issues, that their solution and applications no longer really address anything

And yes, some of you who have criticized are correct in that IMHO voices within EPMC are unequal. Your qualifications to speak on an issue are relatively meaningless compared to your stature. I know I used the phrase Politboro to describe EPMC. I think that is exceedingly accurate. A lawyer once told me you never ask a question if you do not know how it will be answered. Discussions in EPMC are like that. The conversation with the general body by bishops is NOT a process to hear opinions to then formulate a conclusion. They are instead an exercise to convince the listening audience to GET to the conclusion the Bishops already decided on in a closed room. I truly believe the bishops fear too much thinking among their membership.

On a personal note, when I was a member in such a setting, there was one bishop that was absolutely terrified of being with me. I was not a ramble rouser, but as a highly educated, financially secure person I believe he realized he had no hold over me.

In regards to Northeastern I find a much more interesting phenomenon. Yes, technically you can say NE is a split out of Pilgrim, but increasingly their new membership is come as much from Eastern as Pilgrim. So by placing NE as more conservative than Pilgrim but more liberal then Eastern you just get another dot on the spectrum.

While I have a lot of friends withinConservative Mennonite settings, watching the Pilgrim, then other Eastern break ups, the formation of NE just reaffirms I made the right decision not to remain in these settings. I suspect NE problem in a few years is that while their midpoint between the two groups seems reasonable to its members now, there makeup of two sub groups moving in different directions (Pilgrim leavers moving conservative and Eastwrners moving more liberal) will generate new friction points in the future.

[Josh]

The core problem is that they hold fast in the doctrine once delivered unto the Lancaster Conference: rigid fundamentalism and top down, episcopal church control.

[JayP]

In the interest of simply getting down to facts are those you posting on this close to these churches?

As with all things, there is some truth in the person who finds all the labels silly, and yet you need something to describe the differences in practices and where the churches stand.

Yet that can be tricky. I disagree that Appalachian is any more conservative than Eastern other than the internet issue. And as I have said (and look I made the Poltiboro remark. Which I stand by) I think the division on that falls less on principle than individual situation. It reminds me of the fierce debates you find in conservative menno circles on the premillennialism vs,amil agrumrnts. You listen to ALL the so called arguments and then realize the differences are based less on the reasoning and more on which congregation or bishop you grew up under.

The fact is the Anabaptist sickness continues. Eastern was founded in the late 60s and you had the Bomberger, Pilgrim, and Appalachian splits. Just keeps fracturing

[Ernie]

The fact is the Anabaptist sickness continues.

How do you think the sickness can be treated?

[Josh]

In the interest of simply getting down to facts are those you posting on this close to these churches?

As with all things, there is some truth in the person who finds all the labels silly, and yet you need something to describe the differences in practices and where the churches stand.

Yet that can be tricky. I disagree that Appalachian is any more conservative than Eastern other than the internet issue. And as I have said (and look I made the Poltiboro remark. Which I stand by) I think the division on that falls less on principle than individual situation. It reminds me of the fierce debates you find in conservative menno circles on the premillennialism vs,amil agrumrnts. You listen to ALL the so called arguments and then realize the differences are based less on the reasoning and more on which congregation or bishop you grew up under.

The fact is the Anabaptist sickness continues. Eastern was founded in the late 60s and you had the Bomberger, Pilgrim, and Appalachian splits. Just keeps fracturing

All I know about the Appalachian crowd for sure is the Internet issue. I, too, am curious if they’ll have a politboro.

The Anabaptist group I happen to be a part of hasn’t had any splits or divisions since 1859. One congregation left in the 60s (out of hundreds), plus a rumour of a congregation in Nigeria but I haven’t been able to find out more about that.

[danfreed]

The fact is the Anabaptist sickness continues.

How do you think the sickness can be treated?

I know the question was addressed to JayP, but

As an EPMC background (1969-1983) believer in Jesus, here is my answer....

Look to JESUS!

Jesus can heal anyone, and any group, who look away from themselves, and only to Him in saving faith.

He was (and is) my Healer.
I recommend Him as the only answer to the sickness of our sins and broken human relationships.

Here is where we can now live...
"God helping you: Take your everyday, ordinary life—your sleeping, eating, going-to-work, and walking-around life—and place it before God as an offering. Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him. Don’t become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God. You’ll be changed from the inside out. Readily recognize what he wants from you, and quickly respond to it. Unlike the culture around you, always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, God brings the best out of you, develops well-formed maturity in you. (from Romans 12 in the Message Bible)


Happy Thanksgiving, because of Jesus!

[Josh]

Every Eastern person I have met already seems to be looking to Jesus and to be a sincere believer, dan, so I don’t think that’s the problem here. Or are you asserting that most Eastern Mennonites aren’t born again?

Incidentally, dan, the exact message you have above is what the fiery tent revival preachers of the 1920s and 1950s were running around telling Old Order Amish and Mennonites. Yet their fruit is lots and lots of splits.