Interested in learning about Holdemans

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
theodoreclaudius
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:57 pm
Affiliation: space Alien

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by theodoreclaudius »

Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:52 am We have CE as well which I believe was copied from another denomination. The volunteer service is actually a different event.
Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
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mike

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by mike »

unworthy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pmThe "dress code" or "clothing tradition" of the Holdemans is on a completely different spectrum from conservative Mennonites. Cape dresses aren't a thing in our conference, neither are plain coats (I think they're called?) I've heard that most conservative mennonites call our clothing worldly and immodest (which in some cases, I think they might have a point)
I've been noticing a young Holdeman family recently at a place of business, and the husband wears jeans and a T-shirt and is virtually indistinguishable from say a construction worker on the street, while his wife wears a homemade dress (maybe not a cape dress) that is really tight and a very small black head-covering down on the back of her head. Many conservative Mennonites certainly would consider this kind of dress to be immodest and worldly.
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ABC 123

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by ABC 123 »

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:52 am We have CE as well which I believe was copied from another denomination. The volunteer service is actually a different event.
Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
It is up to you, of course, but your willingness to funnel down to that narrowness in regards to other Christians is concerning.
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Soloist

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by Soloist »

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm
Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
The Sunday service at other churches is a no go from what I understand, eating with friends I wouldn't know them to hold that line. I've ate with several of them. I would suspect that outside of services you would find the opposition to be greater the other way around. Even on Menno some events have specifically excluded them.
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unworthy
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:10 pm
Affiliation: Holdies

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by unworthy »

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
Forbid? No. I have been hanging out with a non-Holdeman Mennonite family on a regular basis for the last year, and no one has reproved me or shared any concern with me about it.

Now, making a regular practice of going to non-Holdeman youth deals or prioritizing your relationship with non-Holdeman church groups will be looked at with skepticism. Holdemans as a group do not generally associate with other Mennonites, but on an individual basis, it happens.
I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting
It depends. Special occasions are totally acceptable. However, if you make a regular practice of visiting friends in the next town over once a month to attend their Sunday service, you might hear that someone is concerned about it.
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Sudsy

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by Sudsy »

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:52 am We have CE as well which I believe was copied from another denomination. The volunteer service is actually a different event.
Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
I hope you are aware of how 'the one true church doctrine' is defined by the Holdeman Mennonite group when you say you are 'open minded to it'. Myself, this alone would make me steer quite clear from needing to embrace this doctrine. Mormons, JWs, International Church of Christ, SDAs and others make similar claims. Just saying, if you haven't check this out, it may be a 'deal-breaker'.
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Josh

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by Josh »

theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:08 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:52 am We have CE as well which I believe was copied from another denomination. The volunteer service is actually a different event.
Josh, how strict are the Holdeman Mennonites about associating with other anabaptists. I know people will sometimes give me a hard time from other churches doctrinally but will the church forbid me having dinner with friends who are members of churches outside the holdemans for example? what is the general line of separation from other christians? The one true church doctrine does not offend me and I am open minded to it. I assume it would be improper for me to visit friends for a Sunday service or a prayer meeting.
I regularly visit other types of plain people and non-plain people. Occasionally I go to another church’s hymn sing, school program etc.

Technically, what is forbidden is taking communion, becoming a member, or being baptised in a different denomination of church. If one attends another church regularly for Sunday services, it may raise concerns.

It is strongly discouraged (“being unequally yoked”) to be close business partners with someone who is not of like precious faith.
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Josh

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by Josh »

mike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:14 pm
unworthy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pmThe "dress code" or "clothing tradition" of the Holdemans is on a completely different spectrum from conservative Mennonites. Cape dresses aren't a thing in our conference, neither are plain coats (I think they're called?) I've heard that most conservative mennonites call our clothing worldly and immodest (which in some cases, I think they might have a point)
I've been noticing a young Holdeman family recently at a place of business, and the husband wears jeans and a T-shirt and is virtually indistinguishable from say a construction worker on the street, while his wife wears a homemade dress (maybe not a cape dress) that is really tight and a very small black head-covering down on the back of her head. Many conservative Mennonites certainly would consider this kind of dress to be immodest and worldly.
Generally speaking, Holdemans are less “plain” in dress and always have been. They never adopted the cape dress (despite what a certain California academic claims in a research thesis).

Men don’t wear shorts or athletic pants, but blue jeans are appropriate for most occasions. If you go to a gym by yourself you might wear athletic pants but at youth functions etc. blue jeans are the norm.

Women wear dresses, usually handmade, never skirts and shirts. Some people buy store bought dresses if they can find ones that look “Holdeman enough”, but this is looked down on.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:38 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:14 pm
unworthy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pmThe "dress code" or "clothing tradition" of the Holdemans is on a completely different spectrum from conservative Mennonites. Cape dresses aren't a thing in our conference, neither are plain coats (I think they're called?) I've heard that most conservative mennonites call our clothing worldly and immodest (which in some cases, I think they might have a point)
I've been noticing a young Holdeman family recently at a place of business, and the husband wears jeans and a T-shirt and is virtually indistinguishable from say a construction worker on the street, while his wife wears a homemade dress (maybe not a cape dress) that is really tight and a very small black head-covering down on the back of her head. Many conservative Mennonites certainly would consider this kind of dress to be immodest and worldly.
Generally speaking, Holdemans are less “plain” in dress and always have been. They never adopted the cape dress (despite what a certain California academic claims in a research thesis).

Men don’t wear shorts or athletic pants, but blue jeans are appropriate for most occasions. If you go to a gym by yourself you might wear athletic pants but at youth functions etc. blue jeans are the norm.

Women wear dresses, usually handmade, never skirts and shirts. Some people buy store bought dresses if they can find ones that look “Holdeman enough”, but this is looked down on.
Are the men also expected to wear homemade clothes? Or is that just the women?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
joshuabgood

Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans

Post by joshuabgood »

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:12 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:38 am
mike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:14 pm

I've been noticing a young Holdeman family recently at a place of business, and the husband wears jeans and a T-shirt and is virtually indistinguishable from say a construction worker on the street, while his wife wears a homemade dress (maybe not a cape dress) that is really tight and a very small black head-covering down on the back of her head. Many conservative Mennonites certainly would consider this kind of dress to be immodest and worldly.
Generally speaking, Holdemans are less “plain” in dress and always have been. They never adopted the cape dress (despite what a certain California academic claims in a research thesis).

Men don’t wear shorts or athletic pants, but blue jeans are appropriate for most occasions. If you go to a gym by yourself you might wear athletic pants but at youth functions etc. blue jeans are the norm.

Women wear dresses, usually handmade, never skirts and shirts. Some people buy store bought dresses if they can find ones that look “Holdeman enough”, but this is looked down on.
Are the men also expected to wear homemade clothes? Or is that just the women?
That is conveniently just for the women.
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