Can we make MN less hostile?

[Bootstrap]

When we get this impression, what's the best way to handle it? PM, public questioning, or ignoring it?

Ignoring the situation is easiest (which is why I often do it), but least effective. It won't change anything, and your reaction to the other person will just continue to become more negative.

Public questioning, at least as a first step, sets up an adversarial relationship and derails the thread. Keeping threads on track is hard enough without that. If it's necessary, at least take it to the Briar Patch.

That leaves PM. If you're calling someone out for being self-righteous and patronizing, it's important to keep from appearing that way yourself, but it's almost always worth the effort to engage them. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

This all assumes that each individual needs to handle it on their own. Really, I think it's helpful if we all step in when someone is being treated badly. The person who is the target is in a bad position to point out the other person's bad behavior, and some people will respond neither to a PM nor to a public challenge.

Also, I think it's best to focus on behaviors rather than people, be specific, and generally to focus on the present rather than past harms (real or imagined). Everyone is better on some days than on others. In general, I hope we are getting better together.

[Josh]

When we get this impression, what's the best way to handle it? PM, public questioning, or ignoring it?

Ignoring the situation is easiest (which is why I often do it), but least effective. It won't change anything, and your reaction to the other person will just continue to become more negative.

[/quote]

Whilst this is a practical approach for you or me, it's not very helpful when a new person joins this forum and finds that the same old same old goes on, and eventually they get treated with hostility. I'm not sure why this kind of long-running behaviour is so tolerated.

Public questioning, at least as a first step, sets up an adversarial relationship and derails the thread. Keeping threads on track is hard enough without that. If it's necessary, at least take it to the Briar Patch.

That leaves PM. If you're calling someone out for being self-righteous and patronizing, it's important to keep from appearing that way yourself, but it's almost always worth the effort to engage them. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

And a problem here is when a person refuses to engage in PMs, but rather likes to engage in public, over and over.

Basically, the forum policy on MN is that whoever is shouting the loudest and posts the most, wins. That's a dumb way to do things.

[RZehr]

Whether they win or not depends on the way the points are counted.

[temporal1]

Whether they win or not depends on the way the points are counted.

yes. define, “winning.”
when our definition matches Jesus’, then, we’re getting somewhere.

idea-request for Josh.
i reviewed the “Prayers” Poll thread today, realized, it has quietly morphed into something beyond a simple poll question. in a good way.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=287

would you begin a “Personal Testimonies” thread? .. describe your goal(s) in your OP, request respect for content .. i have hope your OP requests would be honored.

don’t put it in Politics! - try Announcements and Introductions.
on MD, a number of new members would share their personal testimony in their Introduction thread, they were well received and helpful for “getting to know you.” they were spontaneous, not required. or, even suggested.

i think it could work. plant a seed. give it time.
i believe members are capable of refraining from stomping, when they know it’s requested.
we aren’t dedicated hooligans - and nothing else.

[Bootstrap]

And a problem here is when a person refuses to engage in PMs, but rather likes to engage in public, over and over.

Or rather, not engage in public either, lobbing grenades while refusing to answer basic questions about the accusations that he is making.

This kind of thing:

The archives do not lie and in there you will find very harsh lies about me from two members of this forum whom I have since "foed" to ignore their inflammatory and trolling posts. All you have to do is look at the earliest pages of my Campground Ramblings thread to see them.

I waded through the first 12 pages of Campground Ramblings, posts that are now 2 years old, and couldn't find what he was talking about. Obviously, as he keeps pointing out in public, he is talking about me and Josh, but I can't find the harsh lies he refers to. Does anyone else know what he meant?

Ignoring isn't usually something that requires regular public announcements so everyone knows who he is ignoring and why. I don't think Josh or I do that to anyone. It's a way of lobbing grenades without taking responsibility for what is said.

I stepped in to defend Mennogal when Max kept reposting the same insulting question without responding to what people were saying in response to him. I think I'm going to start doing that for Josh too. I'm not going to try to defend myself on this kind of thing - at least, not regularly - but I will defend others against this. And I think it would be helpful if we all would be a little less tolerant of this kind of behavior, regardless of who is doing it.

Most of what Max posts isn't like this, and I am not trying to tear him down as a person. But this kind of behavior really does make things feel more hostile to me. If Max ever does want to have a serious discussion about this kind of claim, in public or in private, I'm still open to that.

[ohio jones]

Whether they win or not depends on the way the points are counted.

Well, you do have a point there....

[temporal1]

boot, just so you know .. it’s taken every bit of self-restraint i can muster to remain quiet about your aggression toward Max - esp on the above, which, evidently, you feel quite proud of.

Max and Mennogal are fully adults, both well able to represent their views.
Mennogal has described many life experiences and responsibilities that would compare with any well-educated, professional male, and is not a novice to Christianity.

i considered taking it to the Briar Patch at the time. i chose not to. i fumed alone.

in my view, your “policing” is an insult to admin and mods, and is confusing to new members, who mistake you as such .. until they learn more.

this forum has admin and mods, i can’t imagine better ones!
now, as Mennogal might say, end of my rant.

[Bootstrap]

boot, just so you know .. it’s taken every bit of self-restraint i can muster to remain quiet about your aggression toward Max - esp on the above, which, evidently, you feel quite proud of.

Could you simply answer my question? I couldn't find the harsh lies Max refers to. Could you? Where? What exactly are the "harsh lies" that Josh and I are supposedly telling?

I don't think that's "aggression toward Max". He makes a very specific accusation. He won't respond to PMs or in public. I don't think defending Mennogal or Josh is aggression toward Max either. He makes a point of having a very public feud with Josh and me. I don't think either Josh or I want that kind of feud.

If you or Max have a hard time relating to me or Josh or Mennogal, that's fine. But I don't think we go around announcing the people we have an especially hard time relating to. It doesn't make things friendlier. And I don't think we go around making public accusations that we are unwilling to discuss.

I will defend people when I see this happening to them. I hope others will too. It's really not OK.

[JimFoxvog]

When we get this impression, what's the best way to handle it? PM, public questioning, or ignoring it?

Ignoring the situation is easiest (which is why I often do it), but least effective. It won't change anything, and your reaction to the other person will just continue to become more negative.

Public questioning, at least as a first step, sets up an adversarial relationship and derails the thread. Keeping threads on track is hard enough without that. If it's necessary, at least take it to the Briar Patch.

That leaves PM. If you're calling someone out for being self-righteous and patronizing, it's important to keep from appearing that way yourself, but it's almost always worth the effort to engage them. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

This all assumes that each individual needs to handle it on their own. Really, I think it's helpful if we all step in when someone is being treated badly. The person who is the target is in a bad position to point out the other person's bad behavior, and some people will respond neither to a PM nor to a public challenge.

Also, I think it's best to focus on behaviors rather than people, be specific, and generally to focus on the present rather than past harms (real or imagined). Everyone is better on some days than on others. In general, I hope we are getting better together.

I guess, in most cases, I would suggest a non-accusatory PM, maybe in the form of the classic "I-statement": when you said _____, I felt _____. The suggestion of others stepping in seems like it would be helpful at times, so several people could do these sort of PMs. If you have reason to believe the other will not respond, or when the other doesn't respond, then this could be public.

Another kind of stepping in would be to not directly address the mean post, but to post a contrasting message.

[lesterb]

Just so you know: two classes of people bug me. Those who think conservative Mennonites don't know any thing and those who feel they need to defend us but won't join us.

But then I struggle with being irritated a lot now a days, especially in the evenings. Not sure why. One reason I don't post much.