Can we make MN less hostile?

[Bootstrap]

Perhaps dedicated EO and Trump subforums could be created. Then instead of being confusion and clutter, these threads or derails could end up being a valuable resource.

How would this be different from Current Events and Politics?

A subforum for EO or Catholicism probably wouldn't be all that valuable, IMHO. Better to steer people to EO forums for that.

[MaxPC]

I think MennoNet could be a less hostile place if people would not bring up and push provocative subjects, particularly: "what the Eastern Orthodox believe is..." and " Trump is a ... !" - That would eliminate our most volatile discussions.

I agree, especially regarding political discussions where one party or president is denigrated repeatedly. Why would someone want to promote a political party's agenda on a Mennonite non-resistant forum? I suspect I know.

[Bootstrap]

Perhaps dedicated EO and Trump subforums could be created.

Or at least Briar Patch-style threads where EO- and Trump-related posts could be sent at the request of the OP.

That's healthy regardless.

[Bootstrap]

Why would someone want to promote a political party's agenda on a Mennonite non-resistant forum?

I hope nobody would.

But political worldviews are dominant in America, and if we want to see clearly as Christians, it's often helpful to compare our beliefs and understandings to the dominant worldviews in our culture. I hope we can do that without being hostile to each other.

If anyone has a strong loyalty to the political right or the political left, that's going to be uncomfortable sometimes. But that's the right kind of discomfort to have. If we do not want to mindlessly fall into believing what these factions tell us, we need to question them, together, even if we start by strongly disagreeing.

The default is to mindlessly absorb and agree with the political narratives we hear all around us. Even if we think we are separate. When I lived in East Berlin, my children started playing a game called "Power Rangers", which they had apparently picked up from children at their school who had seen a German version on television. I had no idea who the "Power Rangers" were, but here they were playing games that glorified violence. We didn't have a television and weren't even living in the United States. I regularly hear people who claim to be separate mindlessly chanting political "truths" that they may not have examined and associating them with a Christian worldview. I think I hear that from both Christians on the political left and Christians on the political right, including some who do not vote. Sometimes people think I'm doing that too - if so, let's examine these beliefs together and get past them.

In addition to questioning the political worldview, though, we have to develop our own. What exactly do we mean by living as the Kingdom of God? How is that different from "religion as usual" or "politicized religion", how can we tell when we are doing it right? I'd like to see a whole lot more of that kind of discussion. If we have an alternative that is radically different, can we do a better job of explaining it?

[GaryK]

I regularly hear people who claim to be separate mindlessly chanting political "truths" that they may not have examined and associating them with a Christian worldview. Sometimes people think I'm doing that too - if so, let's examine these beliefs together and get past them.

Boot, I'm curious if you are speaking of MN when you say you "regularly hear people who claim to be separate mindlessly chanting political "truths"..."?

[Bootstrap]

I regularly hear people who claim to be separate mindlessly chanting political "truths" that they may not have examined and associating them with a Christian worldview. Sometimes people think I'm doing that too - if so, let's examine these beliefs together and get past them.

Boot, I'm curious if you are speaking of MN when you say you "regularly hear people who claim to be separate mindlessly chanting political "truths"..."?

Not specifically. And I really don't claim to be the authority on any individual.

But here's a useful metric. When we discuss a subject, can we discuss the subject, weighing the facts, or are people offended if you don't believe the same political "truths" that they do? Do people try to derail a thread that might question these "truths"? Do we discuss the topic or do we discuss what's wrong with each other? When we discuss it, are we simply parotting the same talking points we hear in the world around us, or are we taking time to examine things and learn?

Even on MN, I think our political worldviews can sometimes be more dominant than our biblical worldviews. And that affects us when we try to understand how to live out the Gospel today in this world.

Hostility is just one more symptom of that.

[Josh]

When we discuss a subject, can we discuss the subject, weighing the facts

It depends on if those subjects have a pattern of (a) always being subjects that cast a political figure in a bad light and (b) happen to correspond to subjects that public figures who are obviously partisan also want to “discuss”.

[Bootstrap]

When we discuss a subject, can we discuss the subject, weighing the facts

It depends on if those subjects have a pattern of (a) always being subjects that cast a political figure in a bad light and (b) happen to correspond to subjects that public figures who are obviously partisan also want to “discuss”.

That almost implies that Donald Trump is the measure of truth and virtue.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that we elected a president who was blatantly doing a lot of things that are wrong or lying a lot. I suspect we would wind up criticizing him a lot, and partisans on "the other side" might agree with some of what we say. You've seen me talking with Christians who have bought into left-wing politicized Christianity in another forum, here I see more of that on the right.

We have better ways of determining what is true or what is good. And if we don't, we need to talk more, not less. The Christian worldview is not measured by how well it conforms to any political worldview.

[Josh]

Where on earth did I mention Trump?

The problem I described is one I see Trump promoters doing as well.

[Bootstrap]

Where on earth did I mention Trump?

The problem I described is one I see Trump promoters doing as well.

OK, then that's fair. But either way, truth and virtue have little to do with pro-Obama or pro-Trump, they are not measured by party platforms or politicians or what wing of the media you read.

Except that they often are. Which is precisely why we need to be talking to each other even when we disagree. And for the most part, picking at each other's motives or ability to think clearly doesn't help with that. Looking at facts does.