Can we make MN less hostile?

[Robert]

I certainly think examples would be useful to address these charges.

I underlined his post to show the examples.

[RZehr]

I really don’t see Boot as horribly hostile, nor terribly partisan. Mostly I see him as asking for proof. Yes, he may be comparatively partial to certain leftward political issues, but in my opinion he isn’t horribly so, nor blindly so. In my opinion some of the right wing enthusiasts on here are more unfair and more blindly so than he. Yes he can be bulldogish on certain things.
Just my two bits. I suppose that makes me a liberal hack in the eyes of some, even though I probably am objectively more conservative than most here.

[Ken]

I really don’t see Boot as horribly hostile, nor terribly partisan. Mostly I see him as asking for proof. Yes, he may be comparatively partial to certain leftward political issues, but in my opinion he isn’t horribly so, nor blindly so. In my opinion some of the right wing enthusiasts on here are more unfair and more blindly so than he. Yes he can be bulldogish on certain things.
Just my two bits. I suppose that makes me a liberal hack in the eyes of some, even though I probably am objectively more conservative than most here.

I just went through a large family reunion with an extended historically-Menno family in which the religious and political views probably span at least as wide of a spectrum as found here on MennoNet. Actually probably wider as we have some non-Menno arch libertarian types as well who spend all their time talking about things like bitcoin, the deep state, and returning to the gold standard.

But I didn’t observe any sort of thoughtful exchanging of views and listening to each other at all. Zero. Mostly just passive aggressive muttering about others and talking about them behind their backs. Sure everyone was friendly to each other on this surface as it was family. But behind people’s backs there was a lot of hostility and gossip. But I didn’t see one actual thoughtful discussion or exchanging of views directly between people with disparate political or religious beliefs.

I think there are very few places, if any, where any of us can have these sorts of conversations in real life with people from such disparate points of view. It certainly doesn’t happen in my life. I have learned 100x more from discussions I have had here than any I have ever had in real life.

My view is that if one simply wants to hear one’s own views and nothing more, buy a diary and put your thoughts down on paper like people have been doing for all of history. Or start your own public blog without comments as many have done. But if you want to be opinionated on an open forum, expect to encounter views different from your own. That is kind of the point of an open forum rather than one person’s blog.

I wasn’t following this thread before, but I see I was called out by name upstream. There is a search feature on the top of this forum where you can search and display in chronological order all of the posts by any author on this forum. I would be interested in seeing examples where I or Boot or anyone else was being unacceptably hostile. I will admit to poking Josh from time to time. But he is quick to do the same and I don’t take any of it personally. Of all the folks here, he is probably the one I would find it most interesting to have dinner with. Sitting around with people you only agree with gets boring and you rarely learn anything new.

[temporal1]

On MD and MN, i’m aware of very few members who were blocked, each time, this was after several warnings resulting in no change.
i’m never happy for anyone to be blocked, always hoping that will not happen. (i don’t believe blocking has been mentioned at this time by admin or mods.) i may have overlooked it.

On MD, if i recall, those blocked had the opportunity to address admin+mods to work out an agreement to return? i’m unsure. i’m not aware any acted on this. but i was glad to think there was an option.

it’s just not where anyone wants to be - certainly not admin or mods. not on this forum.

at some point, someone pointed out this forum is not a democracy, i agree.
it’s a forum with admin-owner and mods, they deserve respect - for their many volunteer hours.
the 2 forums have enjoyed a number of years’ activity, outlasting MANY MANY other internet attempts with similar goals
they/leadership here must be doing something right.

it’s so easy to criticize. (could any of us do better?) i’m seriously doubtful.

i don’t always understand, “like,” or agree with admin+mods. but i’m convinced respecting their direction and decisions is best.
i don’t expect perfection. they must not, either - considering daily traffic allowed.

my bottom line:
i’m willing, and appreciative of admin+mods decisions. they deserve to be respected for the volunteer hours they donate.
without backseat drivers. there is no indication of a “God-complex” problem present.

no one’s getting the death sentence here. there is ongoing hope for reconciliation. what more can be asked?

[ohio jones]

no one’s getting the death sentence here.

It has been a while since we had a good thread on PUNISHMENT. Though there is PUNishment on occasion. Maybe Steve should do a poll.

[steve-in-kville]

Maybe Steve should do a poll.

I'll clear my schedule for the week

[Bootstrap]

I really don’t see Boot as horribly hostile, nor terribly partisan. Mostly I see him as asking for proof. Yes, he may be comparatively partial to certain leftward political issues, but in my opinion he isn’t horribly so, nor blindly so. In my opinion some of the right wing enthusiasts on here are more unfair and more blindly so than he. Yes he can be bulldogish on certain things.
Just my two bits. I suppose that makes me a liberal hack in the eyes of some, even though I probably am objectively more conservative than most here.

I have been reading through this thread, and although it's really clear that some people see this differently, it's mostly phrased in terms of judgements other people are making about me or judgements they think I may be making about them or other people, not concrete things that I have done wrong or specific things I have said.

Of course, I am not a fair judge about what I do right or wrong. But neither is anyone else. Can people please be more concrete about what behavior of mine they believe to be wrong, perhaps with direct quotes?

Currently, I interpret a lot of this the same way RZehr does. I think I am asking people to provide evidence for claims they are making without evidence. Often, those are vivid accusations that are circulating around media and social media.

I will respond separately to Grace here, in one post where she did provide links. I will also respond separately to Ken, but in a different thread.

[Bootstrap]

When I go through these posts, what I see so far is this:

1. For a 4-year president, the actual number of threads Grace points to is not large.
2. At least two of these are no-debate, time-capsule threads where I simply invite everyone to say what they think for future reflection years later. A third is also a no-debate thread for Trump voters and sympathizers to explain what they want and expect him to do in the coming 4 years - this was early in his presidency.
3. Some of the other threads are nothing more or less than a series of graphs showing basic economic data, in response to claims people had been making about the economy or the budget deficit. These are metrics most economists on all sides use to measure these things.
4. Most of the rest - perhaps all - are responding to specific points that others were making to try to focus on one thing.
5. My language and the emotional tone of these first posts, at least, does not seem hostile to me.

I do view Trump differently than some here. But I also don't think these threads show me as the person who started most of the discussions on Trump, only as someone who spawned some threads to address specific things people were saying.

To me, it can sometimes seem like some people are personally offended if Trump is criticized, like that should be off limits, but these same people are quick to criticize other politicians. In some of those threads, the response sometimes seems to be to make it about me and make it personal.

What am I missing?

Actually, I am having difficulty finding most of these threads. Here's the first one I could find:
Can someone provide links to any other threads they want to discuss? I assume they are still there, but I can't seem to be able to find them.

Trump Deficits Spending
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2708

Trump Time Capsule
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=158

Trump Economy
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2524

Did Obama Verbally Abuse Like Trump Does.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2484

Trump Impeachment
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2458

Trump / Russia
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1908

Trump/White Supremacy
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2221

Mueller Investigation on Trump
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1051

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1032

Trump voters
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1024

Trump wars
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=356

Trumps Cabinet
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=294

And here are few more threads started by others.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3124
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3098
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3034
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3149
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3405
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2893
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2811
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2137

As you can see Trump was very prominent in the discussions here on Mennonet for the last two and a half years. And at times it created a hostile atmosphere. I am sure there are some posters on Mennonet who would have equally as many criticisms of Joe Biden and could start equally as many threads on his regime, the future of the country, his mistakes, his racism, his declining cognitive abilities, the evil spirit in him and in those in the administration, his ties with China, through Hunter, and much more. But most have chosen to not go there, for now. And that is a good thing and lessens the hostility, unlike the last few years.

[MaxPC]

Thanks Max for sharing your thoughts, beliefs and experiences on the subject. Food for thought. I guess time will tell if we get the results we are hoping for and if this venue is unique or not in controlling behaviors.

For seven and a half years I have had the privilege of knowing the good people of this forum. I wish the best for you all; that you will be able to discuss topics unmolested.

I hope actions taken will be rooted in a goal for reconciliation and not vengeance. God help us to be reflective of love one for another.

Quite: my thoughts likewise as that would be ideal.

Additionally, in the face of so many who are reporting problems regarding the behaviors: the person who is creating a disruption would do well to take some time off from the group in order to reflect on those reports and to consider how to be a better participant within the group. Apologizing to those who have been offended by said behaviors would also be optimal as a Christian response.

[Bootstrap]

Additionally, in the face of so many who are reporting problems regarding the behaviors:

What specific behaviors, Max?