Can we make MN less hostile?

[Robert]

I think we should try to make MN an emotionally safe place.

Nope. Not going to be the thought police. No way of knowing what is emotional for one and not another. I can't even figure that out for my own wife at times. Just to be fair, she can not always figure that out for me at times.

While we should not attack people at all, more of that should come from the individual on a CHRISTIAN ANABAPTIST forum.

So here is the rule.



Also remember that is someone attacks you it is because they have such weak facts or argument that it is all they have left to use.

I also find it ironical that Bootstrap and Josh have both done this to me and are concerned about others doing this kind of thing. I know others have done the same. I am sure I have stepped on a few toes too. Life is a dance. The object is to get to the end of the song without stepping on each other's toes. You don't win at the end, you just enjoy the music.

[MaxPC]

Make MN less hostile? Just BE less hostile. It's what I try to remember myself, not only on this forum, but on all of the places where I participate in any kind of interaction, including on the road, and in face to face conversations.

Amen and AMEN!

Hmm. Neto don’t you have a Russian connection?

[Bootstrap]

I think we should try to make MN an emotionally safe place.

Nope. Not going to be the thought police. No way of knowing what is emotional for one and not another. I can't even figure that out for my own wife at times. Just to be fair, she can not always figure that out for me at times.

That's not what I'm asking for. In fact, if you really want to promote free speech, reducing hostility is your friend. It makes everyone freer to discuss actual topics.

Here's what I asked for, once again:

I would hope it's not just posts that attack someone's salvation, but also posts that attack someone's character or intelligence or mental stability. I think a few people have done that to Josh, and it's not OK. It's usually done in a blatantly passive-aggressive way. Not often, and only a few people, but it doesn't take much to turn the atmosphere toxic. If that kind of thing is going on, I hope people would not encourage him to just relax, I think this is precisely what we should want to root out.

I would hope that if someone reports that kind of post it would be acted on. Precisely because we should be able to discuss topics openly. If not, I hope people will understand if participants say it's not OK.

[Bootstrap]

I also find it ironical that Bootstrap and Josh have both done this to me and are concerned about others doing this kind of thing. I know others have done the same. I am sure I have stepped on a few toes too. Life is a dance. The object is to get to the end of the song without stepping on each other's toes. You don't win at the end, you just enjoy the music.

I wonder if we have different definitions of hostility. I don't think I question your character, salvation, or sanity. I don't think I attack you. I do disagree with some things you say. In general, I think I do try to focus on the facts behind a position.

Can you give an example of a reasonably recent post where you felt I was being hostile to you? I'm sure that's probably happened, I know there have been times I have apologized for this in the past. In general, I like you and respect you.

[MaxPC]

I think we should try to make MN an emotionally safe place.

Nope. Not going to be the thought police. No way of knowing what is emotional for one and not another. I can't even figure that out for my own wife at times. Just to be fair, she can not always figure that out for me at times.

While we should not attack people at all, more of that should come from the individual on a CHRISTIAN ANABAPTIST forum.

So here is the rule.



Also remember that is someone attacks you it is because they have such weak facts or argument that it is all they have left to use.

I also find it ironical that Bootstrap and Josh have both done this to me and are concerned about others doing this kind of thing. I know others have done the same. I am sure I have stepped on a few toes too. Life is a dance. The object is to get to the end of the song without stepping on each other's toes. You don't win at the end, you just enjoy the music.

Amen and amen. I've learned over many long decades that it's dangerous to constantly monitor how others converse, express themselves or think. That's a violation of their free will and interfering with grace moments from God.

Instead we should focus on monitoring our own behaviors and BE the example of Christian courtesy: this is confirmed by the teachings in the New Testament, Proverbs, etc. Let God use our example as a teaching moment for others through grace and personal conviction. We don't have to be the thought police nor should we be the thought police. We are only responsible for our own behaviors, our own thoughts and our own obedience to God as His disciples.

[temporal1]

i was #4 of 6 children. the older 3 were quite a bit older, by 9, 10, 12 years.
we younger 3 were 2 years apart.

i so wanted to be with my older sibs. i often longed to be with them.
they mostly rejected me, for various reasons. looking back, of course i did not belong with them!

not infrequently, i would be teased or treated “meanly.” unfairly, in my view.
my mother would console me, often saying, “if they did not care about you, they would not bother.”

it takes effort to try to discuss things, in any setting. how often does anyone believe they could not have done better? or, wished they’d done better?

i see a lot of wisdom in my mother’s counsel regarding part of the definition of, “caring.”
real caring includes attempting the difficult, even the unpleasant.

it’s easier to roll the eyes and leave.
it can be easier, to falsely agree, for the true purpose of ending the discussion, or, “getting rid of,” an unwanted party, or topic.

this may be a factor in the notion of, “the noisiest, the one getting ‘the LAST word,’ wins!”
not always true. only superficially, in-the-moment. not everyone even wants “the last word,” knowing it’s not always a good sign. it may actually be a sign of disagreement/disapproval.

time works these things out.

[Bootstrap]

Amen and amen. I've learned over many long decades that it's dangerous to constantly monitor how others converse, express themselves or think. That's a violation of their free will and interfering with grace moments from God.

Instead we should focus on monitoring our own behaviors and BE the example of Christian courtesy: this is confirmed by the teachings in the New Testament, Proverbs, etc. Let God use our example as a teaching moment for others through grace and personal conviction. We don't have to be the thought police nor should we be the thought police. We are only responsible for our own behaviors, our own thoughts and our own obedience to God as His disciples.

Thanks, Max. If we both do that, I think that would go a long way toward reducing hostility here. It's really important for people to be able to express different points of view without having their faith, character, or intelligence called into question.

Is it time to close this thread?

[Josh]

Amen and amen. I've learned over many long decades that it's dangerous to constantly monitor how others converse, express themselves or think. That's a violation of their free will and interfering with grace moments from God.

Instead we should focus on monitoring our own behaviors and BE the example of Christian courtesy: this is confirmed by the teachings in the New Testament, Proverbs, etc. Let God use our example as a teaching moment for others through grace and personal conviction. We don't have to be the thought police nor should we be the thought police. We are only responsible for our own behaviors, our own thoughts and our own obedience to God as His disciples.

MaxPC,

Amongst other things, you have quoted 1 Corinthians 6 (back in the MD days) to me, asserted I have either lost or never had salvation, and told other people that I have a mental illness in PMs. You frequently have tried to constantly monitor how I converse, express myself, and think.

You don't seem very concerned with monitoring your own behaviours and have not once apologised to me or others here for your acerbic tone.

The context in which you attacked my salvation was when I disagreed with you about Catholic doctrines. That's something you should stop and consider and think about.

I brought this up with Robert, who told me I should grow a thicker skin, so I did. But the end result is MN is a hostile place with people having to grow very thick skin. And you seem to think your behaviour here is acceptable and can continue unchecked.

[Josh]

Thanks, Max. If we both do that, I think that would go a long way toward reducing hostility here. It's really important for people to be able to express different points of view without having their faith, character, or intelligence called into question.

Is it time to close this thread?

I don't think it is; it doesn't work for one person to adopt a haughty, high-and-mighty tone where they assert others "should focus on monitoring our own behaviors and BE the example of Christian courtesy" yet display no ability to do so themselves.

[Bootstrap]

Thanks, Max. If we both do that, I think that would go a long way toward reducing hostility here. It's really important for people to be able to express different points of view without having their faith, character, or intelligence called into question.

Is it time to close this thread?

I don't think it is; it doesn't work for one person to adopt a haughty, high-and-mighty tone where they assert others "should focus on monitoring our own behaviors and BE the example of Christian courtesy" yet display no ability to do so themselves.

Let's take him at his word.

If he has difficulty remembering this, we have text in his own words that we can cut and paste to remind him. I'd really like us all to get away from talking about what's wrong with other people here.