Questions for Catholics and Orthodox

[Bootstrap]

Before I start, please forgive me for my delay in responding to you both.

Nothing to forgive there. Better a thoughtful response later. I will need time to read and absorb what you wrote, thanks for taking time with this.

[MaxPC]

The Church is more like a family than like the Allied Forces. Positions matter less than how you live your life. You're free to do whatever you want, I suppose, but if you decided to spit on your mother (pardon the vulgarity), don't expect the rest of the family to receive you well after that.

Lovely post, Coifi. Re the above, I agree. The Catholic Church has seven Rites and they have different personalities and different approaches. And you are spot on regarding how one lives one’s life: God holds individuals accountable for their own actions.
Proper job; well said.

[Coifi]

To the Orthodox

I understand that the Orthodox church believes some Catholic doctrines to be heretical. If the Roman Catholic church would drop those beliefs you consider to be heretical, is that all it would take, from your perspective, for the Catholic church to again be united with the Orthodox?

I've been thinking about how to answer this for a while. I will preface this by saying that I am not clergy in any way, shape, or form. Nor do I have aspirations to be. Consequently, canonical matters - that is to say, the rules of the church - are outside my responsibility and may God help the people to whom those duties fall.

There are serious differences between the Catholic and Orthodox Church that if both the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were to, with sincere and pure hearts, endeavor to reconcile, it would be no superficial matter. It most certainly could not be summed up to something like, "Stop believing X,Y, Z things." Of course, it would start somewhere and thus would most likely start along those lines. And that would be up to the hierarchs of the church to decide what those where. However, the reunification of these two parts of the Church body would not entail JUST that, but would take years of faithful practice from both parties trying to work together to root out biases. It may even turn out to not work...

I'll leave it at that as I am, unfortunately, not well versed on this topic. I apologize if this is a rather lack luster response to such a serious and interesting question.

[Ken]

To the Orthodox

I understand that the Orthodox church believes some Catholic doctrines to be heretical. If the Roman Catholic church would drop those beliefs you consider to be heretical, is that all it would take, from your perspective, for the Catholic church to again be united with the Orthodox?

I've been thinking about how to answer this for a while. I will preface this by saying that I am not clergy in any way, shape, or form. Nor do I have aspirations to be. Consequently, canonical matters - that is to say, the rules of the church - are outside my responsibility and may God help the people to whom those duties fall.

There are serious differences between the Catholic and Orthodox Church that if both the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were to, with sincere and pure hearts, endeavor to reconcile, it would be no superficial matter. It most certainly could not be summed up to something like, "Stop believing X,Y, Z things." Of course, it would start somewhere and thus would most likely start along those lines. And that would be up to the hierarchs of the church to decide what those where. However, the reunification of these two parts of the Church body would not entail JUST that, but would take years of faithful practice from both parties trying to work together to root out biases. It may even turn out to not work...

I'll leave it at that as I am, unfortunately, not well versed on this topic. I apologize if this is a rather lack luster response to such a serious and interesting question.

The question is WHICH doctrines?

I would expect it would probably take the Roman Catholic Church dropping the twin doctrines of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility for the Orthodox to even be interested. And I suspect that isn't ever happening.

[MaxPC]

I've been thinking about how to answer this for a while. I will preface this by saying that I am not clergy in any way, shape, or form. Nor do I have aspirations to be. Consequently, canonical matters - that is to say, the rules of the church - are outside my responsibility and may God help the people to whom those duties fall.

There are serious differences between the Catholic and Orthodox Church that if both the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were to, with sincere and pure hearts, endeavor to reconcile, it would be no superficial matter. It most certainly could not be summed up to something like, "Stop believing X,Y, Z things." Of course, it would start somewhere and thus would most likely start along those lines. And that would be up to the hierarchs of the church to decide what those where. However, the reunification of these two parts of the Church body would not entail JUST that, but would take years of faithful practice from both parties trying to work together to root out biases. It may even turn out to not work...

The discussions are ongoing most certainly between the Western and Eastern Churches. There has even been progress over matters of liturgical lexicon. The RCC and the EO have agreed that both of them are using the same definitions but with different words. I agree with Pope John Paul II that the Body of Christ needs to breathe with both lungs. Let us pray that all antipathies are overcome and respectful reconciliation will reign.

[Ernie]

Question for Orthodox:

Is this description accurate?

The Eastern Orthodox churches conceive of the relationship between church and state as a symphony. The state defends the church by oppressing other denominations while the church supports the state by encouraging patriotism and acceptance of the state’s policies. Each has its own domain in caring for the needs of the people.

https://brewminate.com/the-relationship ... ent-world/

[Coifi]

The question is WHICH doctrines?

I would expect it would probably take the Roman Catholic Church dropping the twin doctrines of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility for the Orthodox to even be interested. And I suspect that isn't ever happening.

Forgive me! I did not explicitly answer that question.

It would certainly include papal supremacy (in a juridical sense) and probably the filioque, but what I was trying to point out is that these are all questions regarding church canon. Being such, I am in no wise the right person to determine which beliefs the Roman Catholic Church would have to drop in order restore unity. These matters are for the church hierarchs. A lay person such as myself has as much ability and authority to judge these matters as a civilian in determining federal policy. Even less so to some extent because the Church is not a democracy. Of course, I can have an opinion, but it (bringing Rome back into communion) is not my responsibility...nor do I want it to be.

That being said, the core of Ernie's question seemed to be about if "dropping beliefs" would be sufficient for reunion. I suppose it could be chalked up to that, but it certainly isn't something that can be done simply by creating a list of items to sign off on. It would require a lot of time and evaluation of church practice and piety in addition to certain renunciations (whatever those may be).

I hope that brings clarity to the conversation! If I've just served to confuse even more, please let me know and I will endeavor to clear things up.

[Ernie]

The question is WHICH doctrines?

I would expect it would probably take the Roman Catholic Church dropping the twin doctrines of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility for the Orthodox to even be interested. And I suspect that isn't ever happening.

Forgive me! I did not explicitly answer that question.

It would certainly include papal supremacy (in a juridical sense) and probably the filioque, but what I was trying to point out is that these are all questions regarding church canon. Being such, I am in no wise the right person to determine which beliefs the Roman Catholic Church would have to drop in order restore unity. These matters are for the church hierarchs. A lay person such as myself has as much ability and authority to judge these matters as a civilian in determining federal policy. Even less so to some extent because the Church is not a democracy. Of course, I can have an opinion, but it (bringing Rome back into communion) is not my responsibility...nor do I want it to be.

That being said, the core of Ernie's question seemed to be about if "dropping beliefs" would be sufficient for reunion. I suppose it could be chalked up to that, but it certainly isn't something that can be done simply by creating a list of items to sign off on. It would require a lot of time and evaluation of church practice and piety in addition to certain renunciations (whatever those may be).

I hope that brings clarity to the conversation! If I've just served to confuse even more, please let me know and I will endeavor to clear things up.

You are doing just fine! Thanks for checking in as you have time. I may have some time in a few weeks to continue the conversation.

[Josh]

I remain very curious in understanding differences in Eastern Orthodox vs. Roman Catholic doctrines of "original sin" and Augustinian concepts in general.

[JayP]

I am amazed at finding this thread and more so at the simplistic discussion. While IMHO the technical divisions between Orthodox and Roman churches seems small, in relation to their shared beliefs, those small number of differences has become a huge gap.

Respectfully, because I believe you mean well, those that post about “efforts” to reconcile are naive. The RCC has endless such initiatives but these discussions ignore the political,cultural, and power aspects that realistically mean they will NEVER come back together.

As someone who lives within a family setting of both RCC and Orthodox members I have taken communion and sacraments in both. Some of the posts ignore the realities of the pros/cons of the two groups that live outside the formal doctrines. I know many devout ROMAN Catholics who “hide” in the anonymity of Orthodoxy not for doctrinal reasons but to escape their local assinities of their RCC diocese.

I would say at its core I prefer the mystery of Orthodoxy to the legalistic approach of Augustine or Aquinas theology.