Page 1 of 3
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
by Valerie
mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 11:25 am
That is fascinating, and it's from this time period. One has to wonder what his formative influences were.
I wondered to since he came from PA & it seems in the 1700s
were Amish more mixing with the public then? When I first moved to Ohio in 1992 and then started going to Holmes in 94, at that time, I noticed Amish didn’t mix with Englishers at all. Maybe only in their businesses. These days I see them mix “a little” more. But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
by ohio jones
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:15 pm
by Neto
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
The book Mike mentioned in the opening post also mentions that Mennonites were voting in government of Penn's Syvania. (I think it is the lesson/chapter before the one he's referring to.)
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:17 pm
by mike
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
mike wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 11:25 am
That is fascinating, and it's from this time period. One has to wonder what his formative influences were.
I wondered to since he came from PA & it seems in the 1700s
were Amish more mixing with the public then? When I first moved to Ohio in 1992 and then started going to Holmes in 94, at that time, I noticed Amish didn’t mix with Englishers at all. Maybe only in their businesses. These days I see them mix “a little” more. But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By the mid-1800s, the Amish would have been quite separatist. The only time I can think of when Amish and Mennonites might have been a little more conversant with their neighbors was in the late 1700s when they actually lost a lot of members to other denominations during the 'awakenings.'
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:18 pm
by mike
Neto wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:15 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
The book Mike mentioned in the opening post also mentions that Mennonites were voting in government of Penn's Syvania. (I think it is the lesson/chapter before the one he's referring to.)
Yes, it is. I believe they voted in an (eventually unsuccessful) effort to keep Quakers in power.
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:22 pm
by Valerie
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
I don’t think so because the Baptists an Anabaptists were already distinct denomination and in his letter to his wife he wrote Anabaptists- distinctly. They were started by different men and had distinct denominational names during Reformation era.
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:25 pm
by barnhart
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:22 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 12:52 pm
But I know John Adam’s said there were Anabaptists in Congress in early days of America’s Independence so maybe they eventually became more isolated.
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
I don’t think so because the Baptists an Anabaptists were already distinct denomination and in his letter to his wife he wrote Anabaptists- distinctly. They were started by different men and had distinct denominational names during Reformation era.
I would like to see that. Can you give more information about which letter contains this reference.
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:31 pm
by Valerie
barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:25 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:22 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
I don’t think so because the Baptists an Anabaptists were already distinct denomination and in his letter to his wife he wrote Anabaptists- distinctly. They were started by different men and had distinct denominational names during Reformation era.
I would like to see that. Can you give more information about which letter contains this reference.
I will look for it- I have it in a book- actually, I saw it a few weeks ago in another book I have- they’re the same letter from John Adam’s to his wife. Probably I was the only person reading it that it “stood out” to me with my interest in Anabaptists- I was surprised by it. He was mentioning different denominations that were in Congress because someone made the suggestion that they opened their sessions with prayer. That’s when John Adams brought up these different denominations how they all couldn’t agree on the prayer!
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:42 pm
by eccentric_rambler
Bolding mine
John Adams wrote:
John Adams to Abigail Adams, 16 September 1774
Phyladelphia Septr. 16. 1774
Having a Leisure Moment, while the Congress is assembling, I gladly embrace it to write you a Line.
When the Congress first met, Mr. Cushing made a Motion, that it should be opened with Prayer. It was opposed by Mr. Jay of N. York and Mr. Rutledge of South Carolina, because we were so divided in religious Sentiments, some Episcopalians, some Quakers, some Aanabaptists, some Presbyterians and some Congregationalists, so that We could not join in the same Act of Worship.—Mr. S. Adams arose and said he was no Bigot, and could hear a Prayer from a Gentleman of Piety and Virtue, who was at the same Time a Friend to his Country. He was a Stranger in Phyladelphia, but had heard that Mr. Duchè (Dushay they pronounce it) deserved that Character, and therefore he moved that Mr. Duchè, an episcopal Clergyman, might be desired, to read Prayers to the Congress, tomorrow Morning. The Motion was seconded and passed in the Affirmative. Mr. Randolph our President, waited on Mr. Duchè, and received for Answer that if his Health would permit, he certainly would. Accordingly next Morning he appeared with his Clerk and in his Pontificallibus, and read several Prayers, in the established Form; and then read the Collect for the seventh day of September, which was the Thirty fifth Psalm.1—You must remember this was the next Morning after we heard the horrible Rumour, of the Cannonade of Boston.—I never saw a greater Effect upon an Audience. It seemed as if Heaven had ordained that Psalm to be read on that Morning.
After this Mr. Duche, unexpected to every Body struck out into an extemporary Prayer, which filled the Bosom of every Man present. I must confess I never heard a better Prayer or one, so well pronounced. Episcopalian as he is, Dr. Cooper2 himself never prayed with such fervour, such Ardor, such Earnestness and Pathos, and in Language so elegant and sublime—for America, for the Congress, for The Province of Massachusetts Bay, and especially the Town of Boston. It has had an excellent Effect upon every Body here.
I must beg you to read that Psalm. If there was any Faith in the sortes Virgilianae, or sortes Homericae, or especially the Sortes biblicae, it would be thought providential.
It will amuse your Friends to read this Letter and the 35th. Psalm to them. Read it to your Father and Mr. Wibirt.—I wonder what our Braintree Churchmen would think of this?—Mr. Duchè is one of the most ingenious Men, and best Characters, and greatest orators in the Episcopal order, upon this Continent—Yet a Zealous Friend of Liberty and his Country.3
I long to see my dear Family. God bless, preserve and prosper it. Adieu.
John Adams
Re: Eschatology run amok in the late 1800s
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:43 pm
by Valerie
barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:25 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 2:22 pm
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2026 1:11 pm
By that he meant Baptists, not Mennonites or Amish Mennonites.
I don’t think so because the Baptists an Anabaptists were already distinct denomination and in his letter to his wife he wrote Anabaptists- distinctly. They were started by different men and had distinct denominational names during Reformation era.
I would like to see that. Can you give more information about which letter contains this reference.
Found it: To his wife Abigail
“ When the Congress met, Mr. Cushing made emotion that it should be open with prayer. It was opposed because we were so divided in religious sentiments, some Episcopalians, some Quakers, some Anabaptists, some Presbyterians, and some Congregationalist, that we could not join in the same act of worship. Mr. Samuel Adams arose and said that he was no bigot, and could hear a prayer from any gentleman, a piety, and virtue, who was at the same time, a friend to his country. he moved that Mr. Duche an Episcopal clergymsn might… Read prayers to Congress tomorrow morning. The motion was passed in the affirmative. The next morning, Reverend Duche appeared… And read several prayers in the established form and read for the seventh day of September, which was the 35th Psalm. You must remember this was the next morning after we heard the horrible rumor of the cannonade of Boston. I never saw a greater affect upon an audience. It seemed as if heaven had ordained that Psslm to be read on that morning. After this, Mr. Douche unexpectedly to everybody, struck out into an exemplary prayer, which filled the bosom of every man present. I must confess, I never heard a better prayer, or one so well pronounced. It has had an excellent effect upon everybody here. I must beg you to read that Psalm”