Civil War-again?

[Valerie]

For awhile I’ve been sensing we may be headed for civil war- in my own lifetime I’ve never seen this country so divided & vehemently so. It even works its way into a Mennonite forum.

After that recent video of the Democrats undermining Trump as Commander in Chief, this morning while we were out of town I learned a piece of our history during the Civil War. It was a sign in a town square (Mt. Vernon OH)

Apparently Democrats undermining a Republican president was done during the Civil War against President Lincoln & it was taken very seriously.

The Copperheads: Led by this man:

https://allthatsinteresting.com/clement-vallandigham

https://www.google.com/search?q=copperh ... no_sw_cr=1

My brother, a history guy, never knew about this piece of history -I guess I just found it so interesting that I learned about it today while this video thing in the way it’s being handled is on my mind. I guess there’s nothing new under the sun.

[JohnH]

As a matter of history, it may be worth noting Lincoln was essentially founded the Republican Party (and then immediately launched a civil war). It seems a bit amiss to blame the Democrats for it.

[Valerie]

As a matter of history, it may be worth noting Lincoln was essentially founded the Republican Party (and then immediately launched a civil war). It seems a bit amiss to blame the Democrats for it.

For what? The Democrats were split on this anyway. I was not blaming the Democrats for the civil war, just seeing the similarity of that video and the Copperheads- but if we don’t end up in a civil war I will be surprised (and very thankful!)
The timing of learning this helped me (personally) see a bigger picture.

[Heirbyadoption]

As a matter of history, it may be worth noting Lincoln was essentially founded the Republican Party (and then immediately launched a civil war). It seems a bit amiss to blame the Democrats for it.

Another interesting tidbit, it seems! How are you suggesting Lincoln launched the Civil War? By resupplying Fort Sumpter, causing it to be fired upon?

[temporal1]

i’ve heard varying warnings of a second Civil War since i was achild. Thankfully, no version has arisen.

In my view, and hope, i think it’s unlikely.
1) demographics. the population is so mixed-race, i’m not sure any family (or extended family) isn’t mixed.
2) geography. the divides are largely urban/rural, all over the country, making it very awkward to organize.

Reports seem to reflect, old college educated liberal white women are the most active group.
(Without grandchildren?) Is that a factor?

“The spirit may be willing” (the mouth may be willing) .. the flesh is arthritic.

[Valerie]

i’ve heard varying warnings of a second Civil War since i was achild. Thankfully, no version has arisen.

In my view, and hope, i think it’s unlikely.
1) demographics. the population is so mixed-race, i’m not sure any family (or extended family) isn’t mixed.
2) geography. the divides are largely urban/rural, all over the country, making it very awkward to organize.

Reports seem to reflect, old college educated liberal white women are the most active group.
(Without grandchildren?) Is that a factor?

“The spirit may be willing” (the mouth may be willing) .. the flesh is arthritic.

It wouldn’t be over the same issues but I’ve never seen the country this vehemently divided in my lifetime, it would be hard to organize something. Before it was by states but it wasn’t as cut & dry as I thought.

[temporal1]

i’ve heard varying warnings of a second Civil War since i was achild. Thankfully, no version has arisen.

In my view, and hope, i think it’s unlikely.
1) demographics. the population is so mixed-race, i’m not sure any family (or extended family) isn’t mixed.
2) geography. the divides are largely urban/rural, all over the country, making it very awkward to organize.

Reports seem to reflect, old college educated liberal white women are the most active group.
(Without grandchildren?) Is that a factor?

“The spirit may be willing” (the mouth may be willing) .. the flesh is arthritic.

It wouldn’t be over the same issues but I’ve never seen the country this vehemently divided in my lifetime, it would be hard to organize something. Before it was by states but it wasn’t as cut & dry as I thought.

i keep telling myself it’s an illusion of the internet, which i don’t believe we’re really very good with yet.

i try to keep in mind how well i see people treat one another (everywhere, in real life) and how often i see small courtesies between (sometimes unlikey-appearng people, of all ages). i often/usually feel i’m in a minority race when shopping and traveling, i see interracial respect, many ethnicities, with few exceptions. i’ve always lived in mixed communities, in recent years i find it odd if i see majority white anything. In both rural Illinois and WA.

i think people are unnerved (from 24/7 noise) but long for peace. i see faces longing for peace everywhere i go.
i know most are struggling. we all seem to know we’re in the same leaky boat.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

i keep telling myself it’s an illusion of the internet, which i don’t believe we’re really very good with yet.

If not an illusion, at least an amplification.

Other than a few people who "take it into real life", the large-scale animosity has a much stronger presence online than irl.

[mike]

...I’ve never seen this country so divided & vehemently so. It even works its way into a Mennonite forum.

Often by way of people who are not Mennonite.

[Bootstrap]

How could there be a civil war? Where would the boundaries be? Who would take over what territory to win? This is not like the original civil war, North vs South, it is not geographical. Sending federal troops into places like Las Vegas and Chicago does smack of a civil war, I guess, but there is no opposing army.

I agree that division is out of hand. Valerie refers to this video, which simply reminds the military that they must obey the law and refuse illegal orders. Is that controversial? Do we want a military that is willing to use force illegally on American soil? Do we want a military that is willing to do whatever a president says, even if it is wildly illegal? Is that something Mennonites should actively support as peacemakers?

The president is not a dictator. He does not have the right to order illegal use of force. Saying that is not "undermining Trump as Commander in Chief", it is saying that we have a Constitution, and no president's powers are absolute.