Elian Gonzales

A place to discuss history and historical events.
temporal1
Posts: 16794
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Elian Gonzales

Post by temporal1 »

President WJ Clinton
AG Janet Reno / SWAT

Elian Gonzales, age 6

PBS / “a chronology of the elián gonzalez saga”
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... ncron.html

NBC / (now 22 years) / “20 Years Later: Special Agent Behind Elian Gonzalez Controversy Tells His Story” | NBC 6 / 5min



CATO Institute / “Clinton Regime Outdoes Itself by Snatching Elian Gonzalez”
APRIL 24, 2000 • COMMENTARY
https://www.cato.org/commentary/clinton ... n-gonzalez
Saturday’s Nacht‐​und‐​Nebel-style seizure of Elian Gonzalez by armed U.S. agents resembled Munich 1940 more than Miami 2000. The abuses of power and excessive force in this revolting episode epitomize a federal police state that has goose‐​stepped from Ruby Ridge to Waco and now to Little Havana.
.. .. This raid supposedly was triggered after Attorney General Janet Reno decided that talks with the Gonzalez family had collapsed. Attorneys for the Gonzalezes say they spoke by phone with Reno and her subordinates late into the night and faxed proposals back and forth to Justice headquarters in Washington.

“For Janet Reno to say that negotiations had broken down at the time of the raid was an utter, utter lie,”
Barbara Lagoa, one of Elian’s attorneys, told Fox News Channel.

The president previously urged the Gonzalezes to follow the rule of law —
and who better than Bill Clinton could make such an admonition?

Nonetheless, it appears that federal officials trampled the rule of law when they burst into Lazaro Gonzalez’s private property with a dubious search warrant.

As Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe wrote in the April 25 New York Times, “it was not a warrant to seize the child.
Elian was not lost, and it is a semantic sleight of hand to compare his forcible removal to the seizure of evidence, which is what a search warrant is for.” Tribe, a veteran liberal, added: “Ms. Reno’s decision to take the law as well as the child into her own hands seems worse than a political blunder. Even if well intended, her decision strikes at the heart of constitutional government and shakes the safeguards of liberty.” :shock:

Furthermore, the 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals ruled April 20 that Elian Gonzalez himself may have the right to seek political asylum in the United States, even against his father’s wishes. The decision that Elian is entitled to a day in court — specifically a May 11 INS asylum appeal hearing — argues against his immediate transfer to his father. Juan Miguel Gonzalez is currently influenced, if not thoroughly controlled, by Cuban functionaries. His parents are reportedly in a Cuban government compound, perhaps held as collateral until their son returns to Fidel Castro’s “workers’ paradise.” Juan Miguel has spent nearly his entire sojourn in America in the home of a senior Cuban diplomat. Imagine a North Korean boy who had escaped to Seoul awaiting a court hearing in the “neutral” territory of an apartment occupied by the Pyongyang regime’s attache. :shock:

The Circuit Court also chastised the Clinton Administration for ignoring Elian’s desires.
“According to the record, plaintiff — although a young child — has expressed a wish that he not be returned to Cuba,”
the three‐​judge panel wrote.

“It appears that never have INS officials attempted to interview plaintiff about his wishes.

“It is not clear that the INS, in finding plaintiff’s father to be the only proper representative, considered all of the relevant factors — particularly the child’s separate and independent interests in seeking asylum.”

Fox News analyst Dick Morris joked that Hillary Clinton’s next book will be called “It Takes a SWAT Team.” :shock:

The thuggishness of the Clinton Administration, reputedly the best friends a child could have, likely will scar Elian for years.
Just last April 17, the Justice Department released a letter from Dr. Irwin Redlener claiming that “Elian Gonzalez is now in a state of imminent danger to his physical and emotional well‐​being in a home that I consider to be psychologically abusive.”

Perhaps the Clintons and Janet Reno believed Elian would find federal gun muzzles psychologically soothing.
As Reno helpfully explained: “Elian Gonzalez is a child who needs to be cherished.” :shock:

Adding further to all this intrigue is the fact that Dr. Redlener is a pediatrician, not a psychologist.
As such, he is as qualified to comment on Elian’s state of mind as a psychologist is to treat him for chicken pox.
Beyond that, Dr. Redlener never even spoke with Elian.
Unless Dr. Redlener is clairvoyant, he seems entirely unable to evaluate Elian’s psyche.
Redlener, it transpires, also served on Hillary Clinton’s health care task force in 1993 and chaired the 1992 Clinton‐​Gore National Health Leadership Council. He is little more than an Administration flack with a stethoscope. :shock:

Add to this that Juan Miguel Gonzalez is represented by President Clinton’s top‐​dollar impeachment attorney, Greg Craig.

Nothing about the Elian Gonzalez case is as it seems.

An adorable six‐​year‐​old boy is the latest victim of a lawless regime seemingly bent on serving the political wishes of Fidel Castro,
even at gunpoint. So it goes these days in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The raid was a news item that does not lose its shock value. In the relatively sleepy world prior to 9-11-2001.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
temporal1
Posts: 16794
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by temporal1 »

The public continues to have questions about,
“Going after a mouse with an elephant gun.” 💥
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
nett
Posts: 1935
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:22 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by nett »

I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.
0 x
Ken
Posts: 16898
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by Ken »

nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:01 pm I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.
How about you. Do you defend stealing the child from his father and not returning him?

Wasn't that what this case was really about? People who were NOT the custodial parent of Elian stealing him and not returning him to his actual father?

How do you think the case should have been resolved?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
nett
Posts: 1935
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:22 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by nett »

Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:47 pm
nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:01 pm I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.
How about you. Do you defend stealing the child from his father and not returning him?

Wasn't that what this case was really about? People who were NOT the custodial parent of Elian stealing him and not returning him to his actual father?

How do you think the case should have been resolved?
I don't defend this. Do you?

Image
0 x
Ken
Posts: 16898
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by Ken »

nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:26 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:47 pm
nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:01 pm I'm wonder if Ken, Sliceitup, and JM would all be defending the raid if it were happening today.
How about you. Do you defend stealing the child from his father and not returning him?

Wasn't that what this case was really about? People who were NOT the custodial parent of Elian stealing him and not returning him to his actual father?

How do you think the case should have been resolved?
I don't defend this. Do you?

Image
No, I don't and never have. I tend not to support the militarization of our police forces.

How do you think the government should have enforced Juan Gonzalez's custody claims over his own son?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
nett
Posts: 1935
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:22 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by nett »

Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:09 pm No, I don't and never have. I tend not to support the militarization of our police forces.

How do you think the government should have enforced Juan Gonzalez's custody claims over his own son?
Dunno, but I know that a swat team pointing an automatic weapon at a child is wrong, and I daresay evil. His mother gave her life so he could make it to the US, maybe the US should have just respected their asylum laws, and told Fidel Castro to figure out to make people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
0 x
Ken
Posts: 16898
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by Ken »

nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:46 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:09 pm No, I don't and never have. I tend not to support the militarization of our police forces.

How do you think the government should have enforced Juan Gonzalez's custody claims over his own son?
Dunno, but I know that a swat team pointing an automatic weapon at a child is wrong, and I daresay evil. His mother gave her life so he could make it to the US, maybe the US should have just respected their asylum laws, and told Fidel Castro to figure out to make people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
Asylum is not at issue. There is no international law under which a distant relative has greater custody claim than an actual parent
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ken_sylvania
Posts: 4239
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by ken_sylvania »

nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:46 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:09 pm No, I don't and never have. I tend not to support the militarization of our police forces.

How do you think the government should have enforced Juan Gonzalez's custody claims over his own son?
Dunno, but I know that a swat team pointing an automatic weapon at a child is wrong, and I daresay evil. His mother gave her life so he could make it to the US, maybe the US should have just respected their asylum laws, and told Fidel Castro to figure out to make people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
Sounds like a great way to handle immigration at the southern border. Put the guns away and tell Mexico and Guatemala to figure out how to make their people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
1 x
Ken
Posts: 16898
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Elian Gonzales

Post by Ken »

ken_sylvania wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:37 pm
nett wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:46 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:09 pm No, I don't and never have. I tend not to support the militarization of our police forces.

How do you think the government should have enforced Juan Gonzalez's custody claims over his own son?
Dunno, but I know that a swat team pointing an automatic weapon at a child is wrong, and I daresay evil. His mother gave her life so he could make it to the US, maybe the US should have just respected their asylum laws, and told Fidel Castro to figure out to make people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
Sounds like a great way to handle immigration at the southern border. Put the guns away and tell Mexico and Guatemala to figure out how to make their people want to stay, instead of trying to force them back.
We live in a interconnected world. Countries like Guatemala are they way they are in part due to US policy over the decades. We are reaping the consequences of decades of alternating political meddling and neglect. Not to mention the drug wars which brought a lot of misery to Central America.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Post Reply