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The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:39 pm
by RZehr
As I look at the general society in this country, I can't help but believe that this nation is writing its own obituary.

Economically, things are nuts. With this Covid economy, some businesses are thriving, and others dying. I see the welfare state is expanding to the extent that people can make more money on unemployment than working at jobs that they used to hold. Couple unemployment incentives with the crackdown on immigration, businesses simply cannot find people willing to work. $15 dollar per hour minimum wage isn't going to matter in the least, because anyone willing to show up on time, sober, and work is able to demand more that $15 anyway. Small businesses are shutting down profitable divisions simply because they cannot find help. Even fast food chain restaurants are cutting back on hours of business because they can't find workers. Some businesses can raise prices in order to cover the rise in employee wages, but not all of them can. It is to acute of a problem. Of course eventually, I suppose it will sort its self out, but in the meantime it pinches. Just in the last week, I've talked with many local small businesses from agriculture to manufacturing, to technology and communications, to hospitality to leisure to repair business, and the story is all the same. 1. Can't find help. 2. Can't get product. 3. Covid restrictions.
The thing is, the longer this goes on, the more our wages will rise (which in the long term has a good side), and our jobs will continue to move overseas (which isn't totally wonderful).
And we have the government pumping trillions of dollars into society, while simultaneously holding interest rates down. Inflation as traditionally gaged seems to be okay so far, but other things prices are raising rapidly. We've been pushing stimulus for what, 15-20 years now? And while is seems to have not cause out of control inflation immediately, it could be that it simply has taken this long to bring about the repercussions of stimulus activity.

Family units: Family is one thing that is of utmost importance. It is the the most basic building block. Few things in this country are really more important. When we look at the divorce rates, and the amount of people who now simply don't bother getting married in the first place, and the homosexual marriages, and the polygamy marriages - what we are losing in this country is priceless, and irreplaceable in the health and wellbeing of this country. Culturally speaking, we have lost the skill to be monogamous. We have lost, as a culture and society, the knowledge and the ability to have nuclear marriages that last for life. This cannot be stressed enough, when the postmortem examination of America is done. To many people are growing up without being equipped with the knowledge of how to make a marriage work. Lost in two generations. Who is going to teach them? Not their parents. Not their grandparents. No one is. They are growing up without learning how to give and take, and without knowing what commitment for life really looks like, and no one who can teach them. No knowledge of what marital conflict resolution might look like. Instead, the are being taught that individual "happiness" is what marriage is about, or "love", or various who knows what.
That extinction of the nuclear family and the collective loss of knowledge of how to do it, is a massive and fatal loss.

Demographics: When we consider how birth control and abortion have together created an incredible drop in birth/fertility rate from 5-6 in the mid 1800's to less than 2 today, we are creating for ourselves another problem. We as a nation are too selfish to have babies. And we are too selfish to permit immigration. We are literally extincting ourselves over time. But before that happens, demographically speaking, we will have a whole bunch of old people and few young people. And simultaneously, we are cultivating a socialist mentality that grooms young people to expect more from the government than they contribute. So when the piper is to be paid, we will have a generation that is old and needing to be taken care of, while the working generation is not about to give up their handouts, that they have become accustom to all their lives.

Religion: I saw a headline recently that said that less than half of American are affiliated with any religion, whether Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. So we now have a country that has not work ethic, no family, and no church. What is left? When things go bad, where do they turn? They have nothing. The only thing left is the government. That is their sole source of safety. And that will fail them badly, but not before demanding their sole allegiance. And when the government becomes accustom to complete authority, with the populaces blessing, really bad things will happen.

One saving grace for this country, is that its competitors are just a bad off in the demographic matter. China is a ticking demographic time bomb. Russia and Japan are already paying the piper. Europe is deciding to simply permit immigration.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:12 pm
by temporal1
i just posted this in The Biden Border Crisis thread:
temporal1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:53 pm Grace,
if you see this, if you’re interested, i would be interested in your thoughts on Honduras Keiser’s posts, Page 4, and on Thomas Sowell, too. as i think over HK’s second post, i can’t help but think every reference he makes to the gov in Honduras applies to the U.S., thanks to decades of poor policies led by CAREER POLITICIANS - and worsening.

i suspect SA cartels are pretty much running the show now. top-down. all over the U.S.

Camelot is history.


i was 17. i knew every dreamy word to every song in this musical.
but that’s a different story.

i recommend HK’s posts mentioned above to anyone.
he’s not addressing the condition of the U.S., but, in my view, it all relates+contributes.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:22 pm
by RZehr
Another element at play that I see, is the rise and cultivation of identity politics. Not simply using political rhetoric to win votes, but the wholesale promotion of the idea that the individual is more important than the whole. Self sacrificing is out. Civic pride and responsibility is out. Patriotism is out. History is out. Outrage and virtual likes is in.
Not that I myself is a patriot, but secular societies do need something to rally around, something in common to share identity.
Instead we see intentional fracturing around small identities.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:33 pm
by Ken
Here is an opposite opinion to yours in 6 graphs, which are admittedly using world-wide data not just US Data: https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of ... n-5-charts

Image

In addition, despite what one sees on the news, wars have also been declining

Image

Also, the more distant past was not peaceful or great by any measure

Image

Finally, the divorce rate is not actually increasing. It has been falling since 1980 in the US.

Image

And falling even faster among college educated Americans. Which suggests that the best way to reduce divorce would be to increase the education levels in this country.

Image

In order to defend your proposition that America is "collapsing" I would invite you to roll back the clock and tell us which year or decade you think was when America reached it's peak. And explain for whom the country was better and by what measure.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 pm
by RZehr
Sigh. I see a bunch on irrelevant data. And an offer to bunny trail.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:09 pm
by Biblical Anabaptist
RZehr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:39 pm As I look at the general society in this country, I can't help but believe that this nation is writing its own obituary.

Economically, things are nuts. With this Covid economy, some businesses are thriving, and others dying. I see the welfare state is expanding to the extent that people can make more money on unemployment than working at jobs that they used to hold. Couple unemployment incentives with the crackdown on immigration, businesses simply cannot find people willing to work. $15 dollar per hour minimum wage isn't going to matter in the least, because anyone willing to show up on time, sober, and work is able to demand more that $15 anyway. Small businesses are shutting down profitable divisions simply because they cannot find help. Even fast food chain restaurants are cutting back on hours of business because they can't find workers. Some businesses can raise prices in order to cover the rise in employee wages, but not all of them can. It is to acute of a problem. Of course eventually, I suppose it will sort its self out, but in the meantime it pinches. Just in the last week, I've talked with many local small businesses from agriculture to manufacturing, to technology and communications, to hospitality to leisure to repair business, and the story is all the same. 1. Can't find help. 2. Can't get product. 3. Covid restrictions.
The thing is, the longer this goes on, the more our wages will rise (which in the long term has a good side), and our jobs will continue to move overseas (which isn't totally wonderful).
And we have the government pumping trillions of dollars into society, while simultaneously holding interest rates down. Inflation as traditionally gaged seems to be okay so far, but other things prices are raising rapidly. We've been pushing stimulus for what, 15-20 years now? And while is seems to have not cause out of control inflation immediately, it could be that it simply has taken this long to bring about the repercussions of stimulus activity.

Family units: Family is one thing that is of utmost importance. It is the the most basic building block. Few things in this country are really more important. When we look at the divorce rates, and the amount of people who now simply don't bother getting married in the first place, and the homosexual marriages, and the polygamy marriages - what we are losing in this country is priceless, and irreplaceable in the health and wellbeing of this country. Culturally speaking, we have lost the skill to be monogamous. We have lost, as a culture and society, the knowledge and the ability to have nuclear marriages that last for life. This cannot be stressed enough, when the postmortem examination of America is done. To many people are growing up without being equipped with the knowledge of how to make a marriage work. Lost in two generations. Who is going to teach them? Not their parents. Not their grandparents. No one is. They are growing up without learning how to give and take, and without knowing what commitment for life really looks like, and no one who can teach them. No knowledge of what marital conflict resolution might look like. Instead, the are being taught that individual "happiness" is what marriage is about, or "love", or various who knows what.
That extinction of the nuclear family and the collective loss of knowledge of how to do it, is a massive and fatal loss.

Demographics: When we consider how birth control and abortion have together created an incredible drop in birth/fertility rate from 5-6 in the mid 1800's to less than 2 today, we are creating for ourselves another problem. We as a nation are too selfish to have babies. And we are too selfish to permit immigration. We are literally extincting ourselves over time. But before that happens, demographically speaking, we will have a whole bunch of old people and few young people. And simultaneously, we are cultivating a socialist mentality that grooms young people to expect more from the government than they contribute. So when the piper is to be paid, we will have a generation that is old and needing to be taken care of, while the working generation is not about to give up their handouts, that they have become accustom to all their lives.

Religion: I saw a headline recently that said that less than half of American are affiliated with any religion, whether Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. So we now have a country that has not work ethic, no family, and no church. What is left? When things go bad, where do they turn? They have nothing. The only thing left is the government. That is their sole source of safety. And that will fail them badly, but not before demanding their sole allegiance. And when the government becomes accustom to complete authority, with the populaces blessing, really bad things will happen.

One saving grace for this country, is that its competitors are just a bad off in the demographic matter. China is a ticking demographic time bomb. Russia and Japan are already paying the piper. Europe is deciding to simply permit immigration.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-r ... tions.html
The 2030s are projected to be a transformative decade for the U.S. population. The population is expected to grow at a slower pace, age considerably and become more racially and ethnically diverse. Net international migration is projected to overtake natural increase in 2030 as the primary driver of population growth in the United States, another demographic first for the United States.

Although births are projected to be nearly four times larger than the level of net international migration in coming decades, a rising number of deaths will increasingly offset how much births are able to contribute to population growth. Between 2020 and 2050, the number of deaths is projected to rise substantially as the population ages and a significant share of the population, the baby boomers, age into older adulthood. As a result, the population will naturally grow very slowly, leaving net international migration to overtake natural increase as the leading cause of population growth, even as projected levels of migration remain relatively constant.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:39 pm
by Franklin
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:33 pm Here is an opposite opinion to yours in 6 graphs, which are admittedly using world-wide data not just US Data: https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of ... n-5-charts
Reminds me of one of my favorite books:


Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:13 pm
by Ken
RZehr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 pm Sigh. I see a bunch on irrelevant data. And an offer to bunny trail.
You claimed America is in decline and collapsing. I provided data showing that health, education, poverty, democracy, and peace have all improved dramatically over the past century.

But fine, forget the data. Can you answer the question and tell us when you think America was at its peak? What year or decade? Who was it better for? And by what metric are you making that judgement?

That should be easy enough to do. If we are currently in collapse. Then surely you can point to the time in our past when we were at our peak?

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:14 am
by temporal1
“35% OF ILLINOIS’ SMALL BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED A YEAR INTO COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS”
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/35-of-il ... trictions/
More small businesses have closed in Illinois than in any other Midwestern state, except Michigan.
Taxing them more as they struggle is the wrong move.

It’s been one year since state-mandated COVID-19 mitigation protocols took effect across the state.
Now, a year later, many of Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s mandates remain in place, nearly 500,000 Illinoisans are out of work,
Illinois posts the highest unemployment rate in the Midwest and more than 35% of small businesses are closed.

The toll that COVID-19 and state-mandated lockdowns have taken on the economy have been severe, and perhaps no one has felt this pain more than small businesses.

Today, 35% of small businesses are closed compared to before the pandemic, more than any other Midwestern state except Michigan. Illinois’ massive decline in the number of small businesses is eighth worst in the nation. ..
The text continues .. there is a map of the 50 states.

Even by 2020, Illinois had not recovered from the 2008 bank failures.
Things are not “looking good,” not vibrant, to anyone driving around.

This evening i was chatting with my Seattle area family, they were stopping in for cupcakes at a local shop - they’d stopped last week. CLOSED+SHUTTERED. No notice.

i empathized and said i’ve experienced YEARS of this locally. established businesses+shops i never expected to outlive.

Regarding families, morale is down in young people. Increasing over years, not a recent phenomena.
Families are going from 1-2 children to 1 or none, often replaced with dogs+cats.
RZehr:
.. this nation is writing its own obituary.

Re: The Collapse of America

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:38 am
by temporal1
RZehr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:58 pm Sigh. I see a bunch on irrelevant data. And an offer to bunny trail.

it’s sad to see topics begin in good faith deliberately derailed, apparently as a hobby.