Race in America: The Marital Counselor Analogy

[Josh]

I think any conversation about race needs to include POC. There are practically no POC on this forum, so I don’t understand how Bootstrap thinks the kind of conversations he’s advocating for are going to happen.

I don’t think this forum is an appropriate place to have conversations about race, because it’s primarily white people talking at each other, even if they quote Sowell.

I'm not a racist so I don't think people's race is relevant to whether or not they're allowed to talk.

Online forums are completely colourblind. Race does not need to enter the picture at all.

[temporal1]

For me, calls for discussion can’t be serious without authentic study and inclusion of conservative POC views.
People bring what they know and are interested in with them.

I think any conversation about race needs to include POC. There are practically no POC on this forum, so I don’t understand how Bootstrap thinks the kind of conversations he’s advocating for are going to happen.

I don’t think this forum is an appropriate place to have conversations about race, because it’s primarily white people talking at each other, even if they quote Sowell.

i’m not the purist you are.

boot:
Here's how this relates to race in America: I'm pretty sure that racial tensions exist in America.
I'm pretty sure there are some real issues. What we don't usually have is a marital counselor to help us talk these things through and listen to each other. A counselor that won't let us fix the blame on the other, but requires each of us to listen to the other with empathetic curiosity and own our own behavior.

^^This is Basic boot 101
Years have past, incidents have unfolded, one after another, boot is consistent on forum, few POC members. i don’t recall any POC member engaging with boot or this topic? i’m not sure.

However, just as i believe men have rights+roles in abortion discussions, i don’t believe any of us lives in societal vacuums, we all have roles. i suppose it was when i noticed how Dr Ben Carson and Dr Alveda King and Herman Cain were treated with such disparity, esp in their own communities, that i began to “smell a rat” on this topic. How hurtful that must be.

Years later, someone here added a quote or link about Thomas Sowell, also, Voddie Baucham, i became intrigued at 1) the plight of conservative POC, and, 2) their signature good natures in persisting in their observations and beliefs, without becoming bitter.
THAT’s an accomplishment!!

The more i read, the more i learn, the more encouraged. For better or worse, i use TS’s name as a default, it’s recognized in conservative POC circles, but, i’m happy to say, there are many like-minded, INCLUDING young ones, esp out of college - who report feeling they were cheated in school, i.e., these names were not taught!! They don’t understand why not.

That’s what young people do.
They grow up, get beyond their teachers’ realm, and when they find they’ve been cheated, they don’t like it.
There are young people clamoring for TS to be taught in school. They’re in disbelief at the oversight. (so i read in their words)

[Josh]

I can guarantee that if there are any POC here, they won't be interested in tokenism and somehow "representing" whatever conversation it is Boot is hoping to have. In fact, Boot, aren't you saying that the mixed-race couple just wanted to be treated "normally"? I believe that's how we should treat everyone.

[temporal1]

I can guarantee that if there are any POC here, they won't be interested in tokenism and somehow "representing" whatever conversation it is Boot is hoping to have. In fact, Boot, aren't you saying that the mixed-race couple just wanted to be treated "normally"? I believe that's how we should treat everyone.

i recall one young woman, maybe in the Carolinas? i remember her ‘cause i miss her. i’m not sure how her skin color came up? - she was interested in Anabaptism, maybe had questions about how to do her hair with coverings? .. zero race conflict mentioned. why would there be? i believe part of her username was Bender.

Ordinary people do not show up in headlines.

[Ken]

For me, calls for discussion can’t be serious without authentic study and inclusion of conservative POC views.
People bring what they know and are interested in with them.

I think any conversation about race needs to include POC. There are practically no POC on this forum, so I don’t understand how Bootstrap thinks the kind of conversations he’s advocating for are going to happen.

I don’t think this forum is an appropriate place to have conversations about race, because it’s primarily white people talking at each other, even if they quote Sowell.

Racism in this country is primarily a white disease. It is white people who invented racial categories and it is white people who built the institutional structures of racism in this country from slavery to Jim Crow segregation to the more mundane forms of bias that exist today.

So I think it is perfectly appropriate for white people to examine their own biases and beliefs and it isn't incumbent on black people to fix white racism.

The converse is also true. Black people don't need white people to point out their own failings, both personal and as a group. They are very much aware of them.

There are actual Bible verses that are apropos: From Matthew 7: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

There is honestly FAR too much of that in our "conversations" about race in this country. Whether it is conservatives pointing out whatever thing it is that they don't like about the BLM movement, or liberals pointing out undertones of racism in the Southern Baptist Convention.

[ohio jones]

i was recently dismayed to learn that Thomas Sowell still has an office at Stanford University, he has no name on his door, and lives in isolation, due to aggression lobbed at him over his views. He’s in his 90’s.

I know you have a thing for Thomas Sowell, but you don't have to make things up. Thomas Sowell is not and had never been a professor at Stanford University. He was a professor at Cornell, Howard, and UCLA, but never Stanford.

He is currently a fellow at the Hoover Institute which is an independent conservative think tank that happens to be located on the Stanford Campus,

While you may consider it misleading and worthy of inspecktion, I don't see anything factually incorrect or made up in temp's post.

i’ve worked in university settings, professors love having their names on doors. It’s an achievement.

That must have been before ADA. Nowadays the name has to be on the wall beside the door, with braille.

[temporal1]

i do not concur. (with Ken just above.)

Thomas Sowell has loads to say on this, with extensive research and personal life experience. He’s a solid academic, more “fact-based” than the average bear in the woods. i have no idea if he is a Christian.

[Ken]

I can guarantee that if there are any POC here, they won't be interested in tokenism and somehow "representing" whatever conversation it is Boot is hoping to have. In fact, Boot, aren't you saying that the mixed-race couple just wanted to be treated "normally"? I believe that's how we should treat everyone.

i recall one young woman, maybe in the Carolinas? i remember her ‘cause i miss her. i’m not sure how her skin color came up? - she was interested in Anabaptism, maybe had questions about how to do her hair with coverings? .. zero race conflict mentioned. why would there be? i believe part of her username was Bender.

Ordinary people do not show up in headlines.

I am willing to bet that many conservative Anabaptist churches will believe that this fashion or something similar (derived from 16th century Northern Europe) is correct way for women to cover their heads



And that this fashion, derived from centuries of African-American traditions dating back to West Africa is not:



Is it "racist" to adhere to specific ethnic customs of dress? No, of course not. People do it everywhere in the world. But conservative Anabaptist churches should not be surprised that they remain largely an insular white ethnic group when they insist on exclusively white ethnic customs when it comes to things like dress. And it isn't surprising that people who aren't from those traditions are not going to feel particularly at home.

[temporal1]

That must have been before ADA. Nowadays the name has to be on the wall beside the door, with braille.

Yes. It was coming onto the scene.
In my heart of hearts, i wish the U.S. had only one group with federal protections, special status: the disabled.
They aren’t the noisiest or most demanding, they are deserving.

Is it "racist" to adhere to specific ethnic customs of dress? No, of course not. People do it everywhere in the world. But conservative Anabaptist churches should not be surprised that they remain largely an insular white ethnic group when they insist on exclusively white ethnic customs when it comes to things like dress. And it isn't surprising that people who aren't from those traditions are not going to feel particularly at home.

Read+learn.
On this forum, i’ve never once noticed the picture you’re aching to paint.
The young member i referred to come across as quite at home with conservative Anabaptists.
Her questions were not in any way unlike others stopping by.

[Ken]

i was recently dismayed to learn that Thomas Sowell still has an office at Stanford University, he has no name on his door, and lives in isolation, due to aggression lobbed at him over his views. He’s in his 90’s.

I know you have a thing for Thomas Sowell, but you don't have to make things up. Thomas Sowell is not and had never been a professor at Stanford University. He was a professor at Cornell, Howard, and UCLA, but never Stanford.

He is currently a fellow at the Hoover Institute which is an independent conservative think tank that happens to be located on the Stanford Campus,

While you may consider it misleading and worthy of inspecktion, I don't see anything factually incorrect or made up in temp's post.

i’ve worked in university settings, professors love having their names on doors. It’s an achievement.

That must have been before ADA. Nowadays the name has to be on the wall beside the door, with braille.

Go ahead and show us any hint of evidence that Thomas Sowell had his name removed from his office door at the Hoover Institute over his conservative views, or is forced to live in isolation in Palo Alto because of his conservative views. The main reason the Hoover Institute even exists is to promote conservative views. And I suspect that if such a thing actually happened, FOX news and Tucker Carlson would be on the case 24/7. That sort of thing is red meat for them.