Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

A place to discuss history and historical events.
Josh

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Josh »

All that is necessary to create "socialism" is to raise the rent of the land to 100% of what the land can produce. Then everything you produce from the land, farm, factory, would go back to the sovereign who owns it, with you being considered chattel property, like a mule that pulls the plow.
Interestingly, capitalism has the same end destination, where basically all of the land ends up owned by the richest few (who, conveniently, are often very influential in government or hold government office), and eventually they, too, raise rents up to 100% - or higher - of what can be realistically produced.

Both socialism and capitalism run contrary to how Jesus taught his people to live.
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temporal1

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 9:11 am
All that is necessary to create "socialism" is to raise the rent of the land to 100% of what the land can produce. Then everything you produce from the land, farm, factory, would go back to the sovereign who owns it, with you being considered chattel property, like a mule that pulls the plow.
Interestingly, capitalism has the same end destination, where basically all of the land ends up owned by the richest few (who, conveniently, are often very influential in government or hold government office), and eventually they, too, raise rents up to 100% - or higher - of what can be realistically produced.

Both socialism and capitalism run contrary to how Jesus taught his people to live.

Jesus does not deny there will be earthly gov systems.
He calls us to follow Him - no matter geography or gov system.

Not “after” establishing a preferred gov system. :shock:
This is akin to saying government is FIRST, then, ok, Jesus. That’s not what Jesus said. :-|

About systems: 29min.
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Bootstrap

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 9:11 am
All that is necessary to create "socialism" is to raise the rent of the land to 100% of what the land can produce. Then everything you produce from the land, farm, factory, would go back to the sovereign who owns it, with you being considered chattel property, like a mule that pulls the plow.
Interestingly, capitalism has the same end destination, where basically all of the land ends up owned by the richest few (who, conveniently, are often very influential in government or hold government office), and eventually they, too, raise rents up to 100% - or higher - of what can be realistically produced.

Both socialism and capitalism run contrary to how Jesus taught his people to live.
In any society, some people have the power. It might be the mafia or warlords. It might be the rich and powerful, who own the vast majority of everything in some places. It might be an autocratic ruler. Lobbyists, crooked cops, gangs, all of these are power broker.

If you want people to be able to live in peace and prosperity, not worried about these things, you need a government that protects people, you want it to have enough power to do that, and you want some controls to make sure it doesn't collude with the powers mentioned in the first paragraph. Democracy has worked pretty well that way, much better than the alternatives. But that's why the rule of law is so important, so that government does not degrade into these other things. The rule of law means that the people in government are accountable so there are limits to how much they can sell us out.

I don't think Jesus taught any political system or economic system. In the Old Testament, it's interesting that the land was divided up evenly by tribe and family, and if it was sold, it was returned after 70 years. Capitalism works best for the average person if the average person has capital. Most prosperous modern economies have a capitalist engine with help for those who are finding their way into the economy or have fallen out. Not much point talking about pure capitalism or pure Marxism, neither is likely to happen here.
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Josh

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Josh »

Most prosperous modern economies are busily concentrating wealth in the 0.01%, whilst everyone else gets poorer.
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JimFoxvog

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by JimFoxvog »

JohnHurt wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:58 am In Sweden I believe there was a 95% tax rate, and everyone understood Sweden was a socialized country. So the USA is 45% non-Socialist at this point, with the other 55% being Socialist, or what some call Communist.
....
It is no coincidence that every socialist country has found the need to put barbed wire around their country to keep their people in (Iron Curtain, Bamboo Curtain, North Korea). Otherwise, the people would "vote with their feet" and run from socialism.
I hadn't heard about Sweden's barbed wire keeping people in.
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JimFoxvog

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by JimFoxvog »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:51 pm In the Old Testament, it's interesting that the land was divided up evenly by tribe and family, and if it was sold, it was returned after 70 years. Capitalism works best for the average person if the average person has capital. Most prosperous modern economies have a capitalist engine with help for those who are finding their way into the economy or have fallen out. Not much point talking about pure capitalism or pure Marxism, neither is likely to happen here.
Wasn't that every 50 years, not 70?

I think you're correct otherwise.
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Szdfan

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Szdfan »

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:59 am
JohnHurt wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:58 am In Sweden I believe there was a 95% tax rate, and everyone understood Sweden was a socialized country. So the USA is 45% non-Socialist at this point, with the other 55% being Socialist, or what some call Communist.
....
It is no coincidence that every socialist country has found the need to put barbed wire around their country to keep their people in (Iron Curtain, Bamboo Curtain, North Korea). Otherwise, the people would "vote with their feet" and run from socialism.
I hadn't heard about Sweden's barbed wire keeping people in.
Or (West) Germany and France and Benelux and the United Kingdom and Scandinavia, which are all social democracies — capitalist countries with the strong social programs that Americans think are socialist or communist.

I haven’t seen people fleeing Canada because of their nationalized health insurance.
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Josh

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Josh »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:19 am
JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 7:59 am
JohnHurt wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:58 am In Sweden I believe there was a 95% tax rate, and everyone understood Sweden was a socialized country. So the USA is 45% non-Socialist at this point, with the other 55% being Socialist, or what some call Communist.
....
It is no coincidence that every socialist country has found the need to put barbed wire around their country to keep their people in (Iron Curtain, Bamboo Curtain, North Korea). Otherwise, the people would "vote with their feet" and run from socialism.
I hadn't heard about Sweden's barbed wire keeping people in.
Or (West) Germany and France and Benelux and the United Kingdom and Scandinavia, which are all social democracies — capitalist countries with the strong social programs that Americans think are socialist or communist.

I haven’t seen people fleeing Canada because of their nationalized health insurance.
I’ve seen people leaving their onerous lockdowns which never end.
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temporal1

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by temporal1 »

The topic of Canadians moving to the U.S. is interesting.
My perception is, there are many, and they go largely unnoticed. They are here to work.

This link more or less reflects that: esp in healthcare.
(i notice them in hollywood and politics, not specially noted here.)

The pandemic, and many changes, are not reflected in these years:

“Emigration from Canada to the United States from 2000 to 2006”
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11- ... 87-eng.htm
.. Table 4 Occupational groups of Canadians residing in the United States, by emigration period, 2006

In 2006, the largest number of Canadians residing in the United States and in the labour market, worked in management (67,000). A smaller proportion were working in this field among Canadians who emigrated to the United States before the 1990s (13.8%) than among Canadians who emigrated in the 1990s (17.9%) or later (18.0%).

However, more than for any other occupational group, it was the emigration of physicians and health specialists that was most publicized and controversial in the 1990s. The fear of a doctor shortage in Canada and the increase in emigration of Canadian doctors certainly contributed, in part, to this phenomenon.20,21 The ACS data reflect this increase in the number of emigrating health care professionals.22 Although they only represented 8.5% of those who emigrated from Canada to the United States prior to 1990, Canadians residing in the United States and working in the health field accounted for 13.3% of those who emigrated in the 1990s. The ACS data show, however, that the increased emigration of health professionals did not persist between 2000 and 2006.23

Nonetheless, health professionals are over-represented in the population of Canadians residing in the United States.

In 2006, approximately 43,000 were working in a health occupation, respresenting, one-tenth of all Canadians living in the United States with a job (Table 4). In comparison, in 2006, 4.3% of Canadian workers worked in a health occupation. The contrast is even greater if technician jobs are excluded from the health field group.24 While they averaged only about 2.9% of the entire Canadian workforce in 2006, doctors and other health specialists, made up 8.2% of all Canadians residing in the United States with a job.25

There were also differences in the industries that recent emigrants from Canada worked in compared to the industrial breakdown of workers in Canada. For example, in 2006, the highest proportion of Canadians having recently immigrated to the United States was in the professional, scientific and technical service sector (14%).

In comparison, the proportion in the total Canadian population, based on the 2006 Census, was 6.7% (Table 5).
Canadians who were recent emigrants to the United States were also significantly over-represented in the education sector.

.. Table 5 Industry sectors of Canadians residing in the United States, by emigration period, 2006Table 5 Industry sectors of Canadians residing in the United States, by emigration period, 2006

.. Summary
The United States remains the most important destination for Canadian emigrants.
However, the most recent data available show a decrease in migratory flows. Indeed, the number of migrants from Canada decreased between 2000 and 2006, and the annual growth in the number of Canadian-born persons in the United States declined.

This outcome was perhaps predictable considering the relative prosperity Canada enjoyed over the study period.
Emigration tends to decrease in Canada when the economy is strong.26,27 Policies encouraging skilled workers to stay in the country likely contributed to this phenomenon.28

:arrow: Recently, much of the flow of Canadian-born individuals to the United States has been made up of young, highly educated individuals who work in areas with high skill requirements. Indeed, the ACS data show that 53% of emigrants from Canada between the ages of 25 and 64 had a university degree.

While the increasing emigration of health professionals was of great concern in the 1990s, the ACS data indicate that the rise in the emigration of health professionals, has not persisted since 2000,

although emigration for this group of professionals remains relatively high. ..

i suspect all the many “I’M MOVING TO CANADA” folks changed their minds after considering taxes and immigration policies.
many in the U.S. love the fantasy of Canada, use it “liberally” for big talk, then do not move there. because, reality. ;)

- - - - -

my daughter+new family moved to Montreal, worked and lived there for 2 years, 2008-2010.
the border was a hassle, not horrible; cost of shipping was high; healthcare required waiting, AND, my granddaughter needed tubes in her ears. doctors there kept her on antibiotics for those years, tubes were not considered. the child screamed and could not sleep, so no one slept. for 2 years. her teeth today have stains from extended use of antibiotics.

they moved to Dallas (also for work) - the baby had tubes very soon, no questions asked. no more ear problems.

(i read) those in Canada that can afford it often come to the U.S. for healthcare. (not mentioned in the above link.)

- - - - -

Swedes like Denmark and other close countries.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/523 ... stination/

i enjoy fantasies as much as the next guy. then, life goes on. :D
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Bootstrap

Re: Communism and the Civil Rights Movement

Post by Bootstrap »

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:02 am
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:51 pm In the Old Testament, it's interesting that the land was divided up evenly by tribe and family, and if it was sold, it was returned after 70 years. Capitalism works best for the average person if the average person has capital. Most prosperous modern economies have a capitalist engine with help for those who are finding their way into the economy or have fallen out. Not much point talking about pure capitalism or pure Marxism, neither is likely to happen here.
Wasn't that every 50 years, not 70?

I think you're correct otherwise.
Ooops!

(Whether it was every 49 or every 50 years seems to be in dispute ... but 70 is just plain wrong).
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