Benjamin Unruh

[Anthony]

So why do you think MCC didn’t cut ties?

I don’t think they could believe Mennonites could do what they were doing, assuming they knew the big picture. We do not know what they were told, if anything.

Sorry…I didn’t intend to hit the “blah” icon.

From the quotes you provided, it sounds like MCC knew quite a bit, even if they didn’t know how the whole picture. I wonder if it’s similar to when churches and church institutions protect charismatic leaders accused of abuse. There’s a desire not to know.

Sometimes institutions fail not because they don’t know, but because they can’t admit to themselves what they know.

That blah icon was very snarky

[Szdfan]

I don’t think they could believe Mennonites could do what they were doing, assuming they knew the big picture. We do not know what they were told, if anything.

Sorry…I didn’t intend to hit the “blah” icon.

From the quotes you provided, it sounds like MCC knew quite a bit, even if they didn’t know how the whole picture. I wonder if it’s similar to when churches and church institutions protect charismatic leaders accused of abuse. There’s a desire not to know.

Sometimes institutions fail not because they don’t know, but because they can’t admit to themselves what they know.

That blah icon was very snarky

Unintentional snark! I promise! Big fingers, small keyboard

[barnhart]

From the quotes you provided, it sounds like MCC knew quite a bit, even if they didn’t know how the whole picture. I wonder if it’s similar to when churches and church institutions protect charismatic leaders accused of abuse. There’s a desire not to know.

Sometimes institutions fail not because they don’t know, but because they can’t admit to themselves what they know.

Another factor that may have contributed is fear or desperation. We are not at our best in terms of care and discernment when we are running away from an enemy. Soviet Communism was a very real enemy but this is not to excuse or deflect but to warn. I have a friend who is called to Jewish evangelism and he was taken back to learn Mennonites are listed with the worst offending religious groups by some anti-Semitism activist groups.

[Judas Maccabeus]

From the quotes you provided, it sounds like MCC knew quite a bit, even if they didn’t know how the whole picture. I wonder if it’s similar to when churches and church institutions protect charismatic leaders accused of abuse. There’s a desire not to know.

Sometimes institutions fail not because they don’t know, but because they can’t admit to themselves what they know.

Another factor that may have contributed is fear or desperation. We are not at our best in terms of care and discernment when we are running away from an enemy. Soviet Communism was a very real enemy but this is not to excuse or deflect but to warn. I have a friend who is called to Jewish evangelism and he was taken back to learn Mennonites are listed with the worst offending religious groups by some anti-Semitism activist groups.

No surprise there. In their Logic Pro-Palestinian =Antisemitism. If you doubt/oppose the actions of the government of Israel, they will label you such. The idea that the religion is separate from the state is alien to their vocabulary, even though some Hasidic groups like Satmar oppose the establishment of the state.

That being said, in our area there are MCUSA linked groups that are involved in “Free Palestine “ demonstrations. Hence the link. Even though I have serious problems with the actions of the state of Israel, I would not involve myself in such.

Like brother Hershey referenced in the article, I suspect more of us have Jewish ancestors than anyone suspects. I likely do, but its exsistence was only whispered. The fact that it was even brought up shows the depth of depravity of the circles Unruh moved in.

[barnhart]

From the quotes you provided, it sounds like MCC knew quite a bit, even if they didn’t know how the whole picture. I wonder if it’s similar to when churches and church institutions protect charismatic leaders accused of abuse. There’s a desire not to know.

Sometimes institutions fail not because they don’t know, but because they can’t admit to themselves what they know.

Another factor that may have contributed is fear or desperation. We are not at our best in terms of care and discernment when we are running away from an enemy. Soviet Communism was a very real enemy but this is not to excuse or deflect but to warn. I have a friend who is called to Jewish evangelism and he was taken back to learn Mennonites are listed with the worst offending religious groups by some anti-Semitism activist groups.

No surprise there. In their Logic Pro-Palestinian =Antisemitism. If you doubt/oppose the actions of the government of Israel, they will label you such. The idea that the religion is separate from the state is alien to their vocabulary, even though some Hasidic groups like Satmar oppose the establishment of the state.

That being said, in our area there are MCUSA linked groups that are involved in “Free Palestine “ demonstrations. Hence the link. Even though I have serious problems with the actions of the state of Israel, I would not involve myself in such.

Like brother Hershey referenced in the article, I suspect more of us have Jewish ancestors than anyone suspects. I likely do, but its exsistence was only whispered. The fact that it was even brought up shows the depth of depravity of the circles Unruh moved in.

I agree with everything written here, but I think the categorization of Mennonites among the worse offenders was based on the actions we took in WW2, not in the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

[JohnH]

I agree with everything written here, but I think the categorization of Mennonites among the worse offenders was based on the actions we took in WW2, not in the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

What actions did "we" take (as North American Mennonites)? Not fighting in WWII?

Organisations that compile lists of "anti-semitic" groups often are not particularly objective themselves or trustworthy; in the present era, a good deal of you would be worthy for inclusion on these lists simply because of your public opposition to Zionism, for example.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Another factor that may have contributed is fear or desperation. We are not at our best in terms of care and discernment when we are running away from an enemy. Soviet Communism was a very real enemy but this is not to excuse or deflect but to warn. I have a friend who is called to Jewish evangelism and he was taken back to learn Mennonites are listed with the worst offending religious groups by some anti-Semitism activist groups.

No surprise there. In their Logic Pro-Palestinian =Antisemitism. If you doubt/oppose the actions of the government of Israel, they will label you such. The idea that the religion is separate from the state is alien to their vocabulary, even though some Hasidic groups like Satmar oppose the establishment of the state.

That being said, in our area there are MCUSA linked groups that are involved in “Free Palestine “ demonstrations. Hence the link. Even though I have serious problems with the actions of the state of Israel, I would not involve myself in such.

Like brother Hershey referenced in the article, I suspect more of us have Jewish ancestors than anyone suspects. I likely do, but its exsistence was only whispered. The fact that it was even brought up shows the depth of depravity of the circles Unruh moved in.

I agree with everything written here, but I think the categorization of Mennonites among the worse offenders was based on the actions we took in WW2, not in the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Somehow, I doubt that, as the discussion of Unruh and others are just entering the general discussion of tha post WWII era. I just stumbled on this:

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cont ... iewcontent

It will link to a powerpoint that details some of the more troubling aspects of Mennonite participation. I will try and find out if anyone iterates that view. My condo is about 30% Jewish, but generally of the. Reform stripe.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I agree with everything written here, but I think the categorization of Mennonites among the worse offenders was based on the actions we took in WW2, not in the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

What actions did "we" take (as North American Mennonites)? Not fighting in WWII?

Organisations that compile lists of "anti-semitic" groups often are not particularly objective themselves or trustworthy; in the present era, a good deal of you would be worthy for inclusion on these lists simply because of your public opposition to Zionism, for example.

correct. or having reservations with respect to the settlement program in the West Bank.

[barnhart]

... I think the categorization of Mennonites among the worse offenders was based on the actions we took in WW2, not in the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Somehow, I doubt that, as the discussion of Unruh and others are just entering the general discussion of tha post WWII era...

I could wish the mennonite involvement in the holocaust was a few bad actors or "apples that rolled away from the tree unnoticed" but I'm afraid the facts are otherwise. The connection was not through the action of isolated individuals but rather through the embedded nature of Mennonite culture and identity within the national identity. They simply did as other German churches, no more and no less. I'm sure there was a spectrum of sympathy just as there was among the Lutherans.

To be clear, as I understand it, Mennonites took construction contracts to build a concentration camp and utilized the free labor of the Jews imprisoned there for their farms and manufacturing concerns. This was in Ukraine but in Germany they also cooperated on other levels like joining Nazi agriculture programs for the funding. I know this because my Father stayed in the home of a German Mennonite family and had this discussion with them, going out to look at the barns built with Nazi money.

https://anabaptisthistorians.org/2018/0 ... roduction/

[JohnH]

correct. or having reservations with respect to the settlement program in the West Bank.

The irony is that anti-semitism is becoming really bad, to the point it is basically a mainstream position with people under 30 according to many recent surveys and studies. But cries of anti-semitism have almost become a boy who cried wolf, making it hard to distinguish the actual problem from what is simply noise.

Both the left wing and the right wing seem to be gradually being taken over by anti-semitic voices, which has been on quite ugly display with the recent goings-on in Iran. Tune into Dan Bilzerian on the right and hear outright calls for violence against Israelis. Tune into Abdal Atwan or Hasan Piker on the left and... hear the exact same thing. Listen to Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson and you'll frequently be subjected to repeated claims that Israelis run the U.S. government via some kind of elaborate blackmail scheme via Epstein. Listen to Iranian propaganda, and you'll hear the same thing.

It is beyond ridiculous at this point, and simply highlights why Christians would do best to rise above and stay out of this kind of political arena. Instead of worrying if someone is "anti-semitic", at this point we should simply ask if we are following Jesus and doing what Christ taught us to do. In doing so, we don't have to worry about conducting genocides, engaging in violence against people, or making the "wrong" political alliance.