400 Years of African Slavery in America

[Ken]

My mistake then. Who here lives in Oklahoma?

Maybe DrWojo.

I don't live in Oklahoma anymore, but grew up just north of Tulsa. (The riots were in North Tulsa, the Negro Business District. And just so I don't have a bunch of PC police jumping down my back, that was the proper name for that section of Tulsa during that era.) Obviously, however, I wasn't born until much later. I wish I would have asked my grandpa about it, because he was around 28 years old and was working in Tulsa, unless he was out in Virginia (WWI non-combatant military service) then.
The first I recall hearing about it was 50 years later (1971), when there were lots of articles in the local newspaper about it. It was honest reporting, too - admitting not only to what had happened in Tulsa, but also how the local sheriff in our small town (Collinsville) had been directly involved in violence himself (against the local African-American population).

Of course. The larger point is that the racist legacy of slavery in the US is far wider than just the confederate south.

My own home state of Oregon was explicitly founded as a white supremacist state. The original 1859 constitution on the eve of the civil war both excluded blacks through black exclusion laws, but also sought to erase Native American sovereignty in the state. Oregon was literally born with both original sins: a racist legacy from slavery, and a persecution of native peoples. https://www.oregonlive.com/history/2020 ... ivism.html

Of course not everything in the US is a legacy of slavery. No one claims that. But the racist legacy of slavery is a lot wider and deeper than we generally acknowledge or are even aware of.

[RZehr]

And, as the 1619 project points out, the legacy of slavery and segregation/white supremacy permeates every part of our cultural and physical landscape as well, from our cities and freeway systems to the electoral college to land ownership patterns across the country.

Also:

Of course not everything in the US is a legacy of slavery. No one claims that. But the racist legacy of slavery is a lot wider and deeper than we generally acknowledge or are even aware of.

50% accurate.
Permeates every part? What does that even mean? This language makes it sound as if only Indians and slavery “permeate” and so they are unique. They are unique, just as every thing is unique. But you present it as if nothing else is as unique.
There are literally hundreds of things we could say “permeates” everything in this country, and some probably permeates more deeply today that these two. How about the English language? Or the oil industry? Or our judicial foundations? How about Christianity? How about agriculture? Or Hollywood, or technology?

[barnhart]

Of course. The larger point is that the racist legacy of slavery in the US is far wider than just the confederate south.

As a southerner, this idea irritates me. New York state where I live sanctioned and practiced enslavement nearly twice as long as Georgia, where I was born. And long after it was delegalized in NY, the state continued to benefit as a financial and trade center, financing new slave operations and trading in slave produced materials.

[Ken]

And, as the 1619 project points out, the legacy of slavery and segregation/white supremacy permeates every part of our cultural and physical landscape as well, from our cities and freeway systems to the electoral college to land ownership patterns across the country.

Also:

Of course not everything in the US is a legacy of slavery. No one claims that. But the racist legacy of slavery is a lot wider and deeper than we generally acknowledge or are even aware of.

50% accurate.
Permeates every part? What does that even mean? This language makes it sound as if only Indians and slavery “permeate” and so they are unique. They are unique, just as every thing is unique. But you present it as if nothing else is as unique.
There are literally hundreds of things we could say “permeates” everything in this country, and some probably permeates more deeply today that these two. How about the English language? Or the oil industry? Or our judicial foundations? How about Christianity? How about agriculture? Or Hollywood, or technology?

Since you asked. Yes, our legacy of slavery and segregation penetrates every single one of those random topics that you listed:

The English Language: The Linguistic Legacy of the African Slave Trade https://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/amer ... dscollide/ For that matter, why do you think the N-word carries more violence than other slurs like spic or jap or redneck?

The oil industry: If you explore the epicenter of the US oil industry in Houston and SW Louisiana you will discover it is no coincidence that the massive oil and gas industry has intentionally located most of its pollution-spewing refineries and facilities within poor black formerly segregated communities. Rich white neighborhoods don't get oil refineries in their back yards. This isn't just an issue of poverty. These were the segregated neighborhoods that blacks were forced by law to live in during Jim Crow segregation that were targeted by the oil industry for industrial development, while for many decades excluding those same black residents from oil industry jobs: ‘This Is an Emergency’: 1 Million African Americans Live Near Oil, Gas Facilities https://insideclimatenews.org/news/1411 ... aacp-study

Our judicial foundations: Our judicial foundation is the US Constitution. Article one, section two of the Constitution declared that any person who was not free would be counted as three-fifths of a free individual for the purposes of determining congressional representation. The "Three-Fifths Clause" thus increased the political power of slaveholding states. The 13th, 14th, and 15th, Amendments to the Constitution were adopted explicitly to address the issue of slavery and the 14th Amendment is now the foundation of most civil rights in the US. And, if you are speaking of the judicial system more widely we have legacies like this which find their roots in racism and slavery: Racial disparity in sentencing: https://www.sentencingproject.org/issue ... disparity/

Christianity? The largest protestant denomination in this country was founded in support of slavery. Christianity was weaponized for the past 400 years in the US to support first slavery, and then white supremacy and segregation. I hope I don't have to give you links supporting the notion that the Southern Baptist Convention was formed over the issue of slavery. Or that the succession and the Confederate cause was whipped on by southern preachers.

Agriculture? Do you think it is just coincidence that there are very few black farmers in the US? The Great Land Robbery The shameful story of how 1 million black families have been ripped from their farms https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... nd/594742/

Hollywood? Really? Hollywood? You don't think that Hollywood has played a key role in perpetrating racism and racial bias in the US over the past century? From Birth of a Nation to Gone with the Wind to more recent examples of bias? Hollywood, Separate and Unequal: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/movi ... equal.html

Technology: How technology discriminates against half of our population: A first-hand account of how algorithms that customize our everyday experiences results in biases https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/16/ ... -of-color/ Or we can look more generally at how technology and technology education is unequally distributed across public schools in black and white communities in this country. Technology’s Role in Educational Inequality

And that was just slavery and racism. We could go back and explore how the genocide of our native peoples intersects with each of those topics. From oil industry exploitation on native lands, to abusive Christian-run Indian boarding schools, to Hollywood portrayals of Indians, to our current unequal system of public education on Indian reservations.

What do you want to do next? Food? Music? Literature?

[RZehr]

You completely missed the point. Laser focused on those two, you are. Seeing everything through those lens, which is a problem.
I’m saying that it could be said also that all of those things permeates too. Genocide and slavery don’t own, or are the sole things, that permeates - although that seems to be what people want to act like.
And yes, we could say that food, literature and music also are inseparable to this country.

[Neto]

The oil industry: If you explore the epicenter of the US oil industry in Houston and SW Louisiana you will discover it is no coincidence that the massive oil and gas industry has intentionally located most of its pollution-spewing refineries and facilities within poor black formerly segregated communities. Rich white neighborhoods don't get oil refineries in their back yards. This isn't just an issue of poverty. These were the segregated neighborhoods that blacks were forced by law to live in during Jim Crow segregation that were targeted by the oil industry for industrial development, while for many decades excluding those same black residents from oil industry jobs: ‘This Is an Emergency’: 1 Million African Americans Live Near Oil, Gas Facilities https://insideclimatenews.org/news/1411 ... aacp-study

I immediately thought of Ponca City Oklahoma, where you pass tank after tank, and the smell of crude "permeates" the whole town.

I found this information (from the 2020 census):

Ponca City Demographics
According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Ponca City was:

White: 76.12%
Native American: 8.43%
Two or more races: 7.75%
Black or African American: 3.71%
Other race: 3.40%
Asian: 0.59%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.00%

[Robert]

And frankly, I'm astonished that you would think that Americas long and brutal history of colonization, betrayal, persecution, and genocide was necessary to bring Christianity to native Americans. But I guess that sort of thinking was once common:

Be as astonished as you want since you have taken what I said way past what I posted. Your astonishment is your own doing.

I was just stating that everything from history has to be seen through a complete lens of history and culture. Yes, there were lots of bad things that happened. I feel in 200 years, they will look back and see abortion just as bad as slavery, yet we live in this culture and this time. Many people objected to slavery. many people died to free slaves. Many people worked to bring equality. Most were not people "of color."

One can always pick and choose though facts and history to find a very negative thread. One has to be fair and balanced if they really want to see the entirety of history and see a complete image.

Yes, slavery was/is bad. Yes they needed to be freed and equality should have been found much sooner. Progressives stopped that process in the early 1900's. Abortion is at tool being used to keep minority numbers down. This is just as wrong.

[Ken]

You completely missed the point. Laser focused on those two, you are. Seeing everything through those lens.
I’m saying that it could be said also that all of those things permeates too. Genocide and slavery don’t own, or are the sole things, that permeates - although that seems to be what people want to act like.
And yes, we could say that food, literature and music also are inseparable to this country.

We are talking past each other. No one, not me or anyone else has ever claimed that all history in the US derives solely from slavery or Native American genocide. That's a nonsensical straw man argument. I don't see everything through just those two lenses and neither does anyone else. Obviously there are thousands of different cultural, economic, religious, and environmental threads that have contributed to what this country has become

What I am saying, and what the 1619 project says more eloquently, is that our 400 years history of slavery and racism have had a far more pervasive influence on this country than most histories of the country recognize. It has influenced every aspect of American life, even where it is seemingly absent. Do you think, for example, that it is just pure coincidence that there are basically no black farmers in Oregon? That it was just the natural course of events that led to that result? Right now the part of Oregon where you live is rapidly changing as hard-working Hispanic immigrants settle in the area. But for Oregon's longstanding legacy of white supremacy and racism, that same sort of wave of migration might well have happened 150 years ago as black farmers fled the south for more opportunity in other parts of the country. But those doors were shut to them in Oregon, first by state law, and then later by overt and covert government policy. The fact that you probably don't have any (or many) black neighbors is not sheer coincidence, it was intentional.

Can you point to any other collective sins perpetrated in North America for the past 400 years that have had a MORE significant impact on the course of this country than the twin sins of slavery and the genocide of the native peoples? I can't think of any. Sure there are plenty of other collective sins, from materialism and militarism to environmental destruction. But nothing that rises to the level of those two in terms of uniquely influencing the course and character of this country.

In fact, if I was to criticize the 1619 project it would be that they focused too much on just slavery and didn't give proper attention to the Native American genocide that operated in parallel with slavery to influence this country over the past 400 years. But of course that would be an entirely different project. And that really isn't a valid criticism because they don't contend that 1619 is any sort of comprehensive history of the US, just a new lens through which to view the development of this country. One could write an equal history of this country focused on native history. But that history would center on the year 1492 rather than 1619 as the seminal year. In fact, that has already been done many times:

1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus

1492: The Year The World Began:

1493: Uncovering the New World Columbus Created:

[RZehr]

I think we understand what each other is saying better.

“No one, not me or anyone else has ever claimed that all history in the US derives solely from slavery or Native American genocide.”

I think it is not a straw man, and that is pretty much what I sensed was being insinuated.



“Can you point to any other collective sins perpetrated in North America for the past 400 years that have had a MORE significant impact on the course of this country than the twin sins of slavery and the genocide of the native peoples?”

Fair question, I’ll think a little on it. In my opinion, this is a much better way to frame the issue.

[Ken]

I think we understand what each other is saying better.

“No one, not me or anyone else has ever claimed that all history in the US derives solely from slavery or Native American genocide.”

I think it is not a straw man, and that is pretty much what I sensed was being insinuated.



“Can you point to any other collective sins perpetrated in North America for the past 400 years that have had a MORE significant impact on the course of this country than the twin sins of slavery and the genocide of the native peoples?”

Fair question, I’ll think a little on it. In my opinion, this is a much better way to frame the issue.

There is a difference between saying that you can detect the vestiges of slavery and racism everywhere in this country. And saying that all history is the history of slavery and racism.

What I am saying (and what I think the authors of 1619 are saying) is that you can find the vestiges and legacies of slavery and racism everywhere. Even in remote rural Oregon. Not that every event or historic fact is traceable back to slavery.

Put another way, the American Civil War was the greatest watershed event in American history. Before the Civil War we were (in part) a slave empire rivaled only by Brazil. After that we had (on paper) equal rights for all. For the 246 years from 1619 to 1865 religion, economics, science, literature, music, and really nearly every aspect of American culture was weaponized in support of slavery. There was a whole theology developed in southern churches in support of slavery. Science was employed to support claims of the inferiority of Africans and to justify their enslavement. Every aspect of American culture was employed in the argument for white supremacy and black inferiority to justify slavery. For example, Andrew Stephens, vice president of the Confederate States used science to justify slavery on the eve of the Civil War in his famous "Cornerstone Speech"

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.

Texas directly weaponized Christianity in support of slavery in its official Declaration of Succession

...in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states....

And Alabama fired up the fear of black rapists in it's own Declaration of Succession

—for the triumph of this new theory of Government destroys the property of the South, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a San Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations, and her wives and daughters to pollution and violation, to gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans.

The point of the 1619 project is that these deeply-seated white supremacist beliefs developed to support and justify slavery did not simply vanish with the end of the Civil War. People's beliefs did not simply change overnight. The country didn't say "never mind, bygones, it was all just a big mistake, let's have a fresh start"

What actually happened is that white people, especially in the south, simply doubled-down in those beliefs. And escalated them to an even greater fever pitch to justify Jim Crow laws, segregation, lynching, and opposition to the civil rights act. And you can find the white supremacist attitudes found in the quotes above expressed everywhere in local, state, and federal government policy for at least 100 years after the end of the Civil War, in some cases (for example sentencing disparities and southern voter suppression) up to the present day. For example, this is William F. Buckley in the conservative National Review in the early 1960s arguing for black voter suppression and violence to enforce white supremacy in the south. https://adamgomez.files.wordpress.com/2 ... l-1957.pdf

That is actually what is meant by "systemic racism."