The Origin of Plain Anabaptists

[Neto]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.


I would agree more with this if it said something like "Anabaptists have a 500 year history of making lifestyle choices that pushback against the excesses of society." I'm not convinced their has been a consistent thread of what is currently called plainess in general practice.

I think this also born out in the overlap of fellowship between Mennos and other denominations in earlier centuries. For instance, Lutherans and Mennos in the earlier centuries intermingled and intermarried in lancaster at somewhat significant levels. Even sharing pulpits in occasion in the early settler days.

I don't know much about this history although my father's family were Lutheran at immigration and joined the Anabaptists after arrival. How did association with Lutheran's contribute to the plain identity.

I will suggest that since it was a Lutheran pietist who organized the first Amish & Mennonite immigration to PA, an actual desire (on the part of the laity as well as the 'ministry') to dress in a more plain fashion might be an out-growth of this association. In other words, it would be an association with a certain faction of Lutherans, not with the general Lutherans.

[barnhart]

I think this also born out in the overlap of fellowship between Mennos and other denominations in earlier centuries. For instance, Lutherans and Mennos in the earlier centuries intermingled and intermarried in lancaster at somewhat significant levels. Even sharing pulpits in occasion in the early settler days.

I don't know much about this history although my father's family were Lutheran at immigration and joined the Anabaptists after arrival. How did association with Lutheran's contribute to the plain identity.

I will suggest that since it was a Lutheran pietist who organized the first Amish & Mennonite immigration to PA, an actual desire (on the part of the laity as well as the 'ministry') to dress in a more plain fashion might be an out-growth of this association. In other words, it would be an association with a certain faction of Lutherans, not with the general Lutherans.

Just to clarify, your hypothesis is the distinctive dress practice came from the Lutherans?

[Neto]

I don't know much about this history although my father's family were Lutheran at immigration and joined the Anabaptists after arrival. How did association with Lutheran's contribute to the plain identity.

I will suggest that since it was a Lutheran pietist who organized the first Amish & Mennonite immigration to PA, an actual desire (on the part of the laity as well as the 'ministry') to dress in a more plain fashion might be an out-growth of this association. In other words, it would be an association with a certain faction of Lutherans, not with the general Lutherans.

Just to clarify, your hypothesis is the distinctive dress practice came from the Lutherans?

Not necessarily 'distinctive', just less 'showy'. I really don't know, I only recently found out that it was a Lutheran pietist who organized that first immigration of your people. (I read it in the If Anyone Would Follow Me book.) I think that there was a very common (if not nearly universal) desire to dress less for show of wealth in the very early years, but the book also mentions that this period was a time of low spiritual enthusiasm. Again, it's "not my people", so this is all pretty much new to me. Perhaps I should have stayed out of this discussion. This just came to mind as a possible influence, having fairly recently read that chapter in that book.

[ken_sylvania]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

It wouldn't particularly surprise me if that church tradition is the Mennonites in the mid-western and western US. I don't think that would be accurate in describing Franconia and Lancaster conference tradition. While plainness of clothing might have been more pronounced among the Brethren, it was recognizable among the PA Mennonites also in the 18th century. There is a tendency to look at photographs (more likely to be taken of and by the less conservative element) and assume that they are representative of most Mennonites. Also to look at where practices had drifted to by the mid 19th century and assume that it is representative of the prior two centuries of Mennonite practice. Based on what I've read of church history in the 18th century I don't think either is accurate.

I don't know much about the traditions you reference but photos of Virginia mennonites in the late 19th century are mostly indistinguishable from their neighbors. It's possible someone with detailed knowledge could point out the differences but to a general observer, I doubt it.

I think there is a good argument to be made that the distinctions of plain Mennonites are the result of a buffered or slowed interaction with modernity. In other words we were slower to change.

Are you referring to photos of general gatherings of Virginia Mennonites, or to family photos and portraits?

[joshuabgood]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.


I would agree more with this if it said something like "Anabaptists have a 500 year history of making lifestyle choices that pushback against the excesses of society." I'm not convinced their has been a consistent thread of what is currently called plainess in general practice.

I think this also born out in the overlap of fellowship between Mennos and other denominations in earlier centuries. For instance, Lutherans and Mennos in the earlier centuries intermingled and intermarried in lancaster at somewhat significant levels. Even sharing pulpits in occasion in the early settler days.

I don't know much about this history although my father's family were Lutheran at immigration and joined the Anabaptists after arrival. How did association with Lutheran's contribute to the plain identity.

My point was, that lack of a "plain identity" made cross pollination more conducive...than it is today.

[barnhart]

It wouldn't particularly surprise me if that church tradition is the Mennonites in the mid-western and western US. I don't think that would be accurate in describing Franconia and Lancaster conference tradition. While plainness of clothing might have been more pronounced among the Brethren, it was recognizable among the PA Mennonites also in the 18th century. There is a tendency to look at photographs (more likely to be taken of and by the less conservative element) and assume that they are representative of most Mennonites. Also to look at where practices had drifted to by the mid 19th century and assume that it is representative of the prior two centuries of Mennonite practice. Based on what I've read of church history in the 18th century I don't think either is accurate.

I don't know much about the traditions you reference but photos of Virginia mennonites in the late 19th century are mostly indistinguishable from their neighbors. It's possible someone with detailed knowledge could point out the differences but to a general observer, I doubt it.

I think there is a good argument to be made that the distinctions of plain Mennonites are the result of a buffered or slowed interaction with modernity. In other words we were slower to change.

Are you referring to photos of general gatherings of Virginia Mennonites, or to family photos and portraits?

Both.

[ken_sylvania]

I would be interested in seeing some of these photos if they are publicly available. I haven't seen much from VA - more from PA/MD.

[joshuabgood]

Both sets of my grandparents from PA in their youth looked like regular people, replete with bow ties, stylish looking hats, etc. And interestingly, both were from the OO, in their youth. And the pic or two of my great grandparents also...

[barnhart]

I would be interested in seeing some of these photos if they are publicly available. I haven't seen much from VA - more from PA/MD.

Google.

[ken_sylvania]

I would be interested in seeing some of these photos if they are publicly available. I haven't seen much from VA - more from PA/MD.

Google.

Apparently my Googling skills are sub-par. I can hardly find any dated photos of Virginia Mennonites from the 19th century, and certainly not enough to say that they dressed generally the same as their neighbors. Most seem to be photos of young people who did not necessarily dress plain.