When a people group loses interest in history...

[Ernie]

So I guess a fourth question is, What about those who grow up as part of a host culture with a rich heritage, but don't even value that history?

The obvious answer is that that host culture doesn't value history.

Some host cultures do not but haven't many host cultures throughout history valued their history?

[JohnL]

Good topic. To chart a course from a map one must know where they are and where they came from.

For a simple answer to all three questions, I would say "Nothing good."

These two gents share my pov.

So I guess a fourth question is, What about those who grow up as part of a host culture with a rich heritage, but don't even value that history?

I’m thinking that the host culture did a poor job of teaching the younger generation about the values held dear in the host culture.

[Ernie]

I’m thinking that the host culture did a poor job of teaching the younger generation about the values held dear in the host culture.

Which host culture?

[JohnL]

I’m thinking that the host culture did a poor job of teaching the younger generation about the values held dear in the host culture.

Which host culture?

Any host culture with a rich heritage. If those values are not taught first in the home, then supported by a school curriculum, the appreciation of heritage fades. One of the first acts of an invading group is to suppress parents, religious leaders and teachers who would teach that host culture’s heritage. History repeats on this in both big invasions and small.
There’s an example from 1960s right here in the mountains when our Appalachian heritage was attacked by government programs under the pretense of helping the poor. People were duped into giving up their land and becoming dependent on handouts from the govt. Our heritage was treated as inferior. What we’re finally learning is that there’s different kinds of poverty. Poverty of heritage is much more harmful than being without the latest model car or cell phone. Poverty of family connections is much more harmful than not having the latest fashions. We were reminded of these things in 2024 when Helene flooded out western NC. It wasn’t the state or federal govt that helped us. It was neighbors and family that came looking for those who were trapped. It was neighbors and family that provided help with shelter, food and clothing.

[JohnH]

I’m thinking that the host culture did a poor job of teaching the younger generation about the values held dear in the host culture.

Which host culture?

Any culture that allows #1 and #2 to happen.

I have noticed, that in plain circles, the way to keep #1 and #2 alive is often via family history - children grow up learning stories about what their grandparents and great-grandparents were about. From there, an interest develops into history in general.

[Ernie]

I have noticed, that in plain circles, the way to keep #1 and #2 alive is often via family history - children grow up learning stories about what their grandparents and great-grandparents were about. From there, an interest develops into history in general.

Yes, I have observed the same thing. And I am guessing the same thing is true for any culture around the world. Any sub-culture or host culture that does this well is going to keep their culture. (with some aspects being good and some not so good, depending on how aligned the culture is with the truth and beauty and love of God)

All it takes is for one generation to get sidetracked with all sorts of unimportant things or be given a false slant on history and it will be hard for that culture to survive or for future generations to see the value of history.

In the Anabaptist world, it seems to be the Old Orders and Ultra-conservatives who take the most interest in their history. Their books can even become valuable, if written well, and either maintain their value or appreciate in value.
In contrast, constituencies that have lost an interest in history might have a few people among them interested in history. But if they write a book, they can hardly find buyers for their book, and they end up giving hundreds or thousands of copies away.

[JohnH]

In the Anabaptist world, it seems to be the Old Orders and Ultra-conservatives who take the most interest in their history. Their books can even become valuable, if written well, and either maintain their value or appreciate in value.
In contrast, constituencies that have lost an interest in history might have a few people among them interested in history. But if they write a book, they can hardly find buyers for their book, and they end up giving hundreds or thousands of copies away.

I have noticed that the Pure Church Movement groups also are prolific writers and publishers. For example, the Englewood (or Delano, can't remember which, they're about 20 miles from each other) community maintains its own print shop. If they want to sit around discussing intellectual matters, history is a favourite topic.

I noticed similarly amongst intentionalists like the Detention River Christian Community but not to the degree of being willing to operate print shops, print and bind books, and promote them to each other.

In Holdeman circles (Holdemans are closer to a Pure Church Movement group than Old Order) there are people who either write family histories, write histories of a mission to a particular country, or write a history of a congregation. These books become favourites and end up in everyone's libraries.

[Neto]

I have seen a couple of types of interest grow in the history of the Plautdietsch that while they may not lead to a vibrant faith at all, let alone one characterized by anabaptist beliefs, they do create curiosity & questions that lead to the opportunity to tell the Gospel - especially the Gospel of peace.

A Ukrainian man (who recently died on the battlefield there) was tearing down an early Soviet cooperative building in his home area, which just happened to be in one of the former Mennonite colony areas. He was taking out some large stones, and saw names on them - tombstones. Mennonite tombstones. Curious, he began to study the history of that area, and ended up organizing a project to restore those stones, and create a memorial. (There isn't anyway to know where the actual graves are - the stones were probably gathered from various Mennonite villages.) Several Mennonites from Canada visited there, and met him in person. No, he didn't adopt nonresistance, because as I said, he died in the war there.

The other group are people with Plautdietsch heritage that is completely unknown to them until they submit a sample for genealogy records. Some of these people are Ukrainians, Russians, and others are from North America, possibly mostly from Canada. Some of these people have found the Plautdietsch FaceBook history and genealogy group, and ask puzzled questions like "Why did these people leave their homeland, and move first to what is now Poland, then later on to the Russian Empire?" That's a great opportunity to tell the Gospel. (The FB group rules say 'no religion or politics', but if the answer is written in the historical context, then it is allowed.) I do not know that any of these folks have become Christians, or even Christians. But at least they hear the Gospel.

[JohnH]

I have seen a couple of types of interest grow in the history of the Plautdietsch that while they may not lead to a vibrant faith at all, let alone one characterized by anabaptist beliefs, they do create curiosity & questions that lead to the opportunity to tell the Gospel - especially the Gospel of peace.

A Ukrainian man (who recently died on the battlefield there) was tearing down an early Soviet cooperative building in his home area, which just happened to be in one of the former Mennonite colony areas. He was taking out some large stones, and saw names on them - tombstones. Mennonite tombstones. Curious, he began to study the history of that area, and ended up organizing a project to restore those stones, and create a memorial. (There isn't anyway to know where the actual graves are - the stones were probably gathered from various Mennonite villages.) Several Mennonites from Canada visited there, and met him in person. No, he didn't adopt nonresistance, because as I said, he died in the war there.

The other group are people with Plautdietsch heritage that is completely unknown to them until they submit a sample for genealogy records. Some of these people are Ukrainians, Russians, and others are from North America, possibly mostly from Canada. Some of these people have found the Plautdietsch FaceBook history and genealogy group, and ask puzzled questions like "Why did these people leave their homeland, and move first to what is now Poland, then later on to the Russian Empire?" That's a great opportunity to tell the Gospel. (The FB group rules say 'no religion or politics', but if the answer is written in the historical context, then it is allowed.) I do not know that any of these folks have become Christians, or even Christians. But at least they hear the Gospel.

The interest in "Plautdietsch" history (we would just called it "Russian Mennonite") is an interesting one. In my own circles, people are generally not that interested in it as far as language and cultural oddities go. They would, however, be interested in the history of the church in particular and the story of how they migrated from various places to where they are today. But they also seem to be quite grateful they no longer speak Low German and that they instead can converse well with their neighbours and that non-Russian Mennonite background people can feel comfortable joining our churches.

So I'm not sure if that's a lack of interest in history or not. My wife finds the idea of people being interested in connecting with other people of Russian Mennonite background but who are not Christians (or not plain Mennonites) very, very off putting. And the "Plautdietsch" cultural groups etc are even less appealing to her. As she puts it, she feels far less in common with them than with other members in church, or even with other non-Mennonite people who are nonetheless sincere believers.

[Neto]

I have seen a couple of types of interest grow in the history of the Plautdietsch that while they may not lead to a vibrant faith at all, let alone one characterized by anabaptist beliefs, they do create curiosity & questions that lead to the opportunity to tell the Gospel - especially the Gospel of peace.

A Ukrainian man (who recently died on the battlefield there) was tearing down an early Soviet cooperative building in his home area, which just happened to be in one of the former Mennonite colony areas. He was taking out some large stones, and saw names on them - tombstones. Mennonite tombstones. Curious, he began to study the history of that area, and ended up organizing a project to restore those stones, and create a memorial. (There isn't anyway to know where the actual graves are - the stones were probably gathered from various Mennonite villages.) Several Mennonites from Canada visited there, and met him in person. No, he didn't adopt nonresistance, because as I said, he died in the war there.

The other group are people with Plautdietsch heritage that is completely unknown to them until they submit a sample for genealogy records. Some of these people are Ukrainians, Russians, and others are from North America, possibly mostly from Canada. Some of these people have found the Plautdietsch FaceBook history and genealogy group, and ask puzzled questions like "Why did these people leave their homeland, and move first to what is now Poland, then later on to the Russian Empire?" That's a great opportunity to tell the Gospel. (The FB group rules say 'no religion or politics', but if the answer is written in the historical context, then it is allowed.) I do not know that any of these folks have become Christians, or even Christians. But at least they hear the Gospel.

The interest in "Plautdietsch" history (we would just called it "Russian Mennonite") is an interesting one. In my own circles, people are generally not that interested in it as far as language and cultural oddities go. They would, however, be interested in the history of the church in particular and the story of how they migrated from various places to where they are today. But they also seem to be quite grateful they no longer speak Low German and that they instead can converse well with their neighbours and that non-Russian Mennonite background people can feel comfortable joining our churches.

So I'm not sure if that's a lack of interest in history or not. My wife finds the idea of people being interested in connecting with other people of Russian Mennonite background but who are not Christians (or not plain Mennonites) very, very off putting. And the "Plautdietsch" cultural groups etc are even less appealing to her. As she puts it, she feels far less in common with them than with other members in church, or even with other non-Mennonite people who are nonetheless sincere believers.

I do sometimes use the name "Russian Mennonite", but not all Plautdietsch people fled to Russia. (Some stayed in what is now Poland, or settled some place along the way to Russia, but never continued on. One of my ancestors was born in Lithuania, but I think the Russian Empire later took control of that country as well.) I am third & forth generation 'American-Born', but I am still deeply affected by my cultural heritage, and the world view that characterizes my people. I also feel at a loss because I do not speak (or even understand) the language.

But I treat this interest on the part of these other people as an opportunity to open a spiritual discussion with them.