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Daniel Penny, age 24
Incident: NYC Subway May 1, 2023

Who is Daniel Penny? What we know about the Marine veteran
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-dan ... YHF4eb9d17

Opinion / Matt Walsh / Why The Daniel Penny Case Is An Utter Travesty / 14min


Manslaughter charge against Daniel Penny dismissed
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/daniel-pen ... ourth-day/

Judge urges NYC subway chokehold jury to keep deliberating after it struggles to reach verdict
https://apnews.com/article/daniel-penny ... c5cf8ea9b4

He’s not out of the woods.

What timing for this case, a young man (with no priors) attempting to do the right thing for others, a death resulted, evidently, no one is claiming premeditation or intentional malice, AT THE SAME TIME lifelong errant Hunter Biden is again dominating headlines.
viewtopic.php?t=7373

i’m sorry for Jordan Neely’s death. i’m sorry Jordan Neely had such a troubled life that ended in tragedy.
i’m sorry there are so many like this.

i saw a video of the interaction early on, it must have been in May 2023.
a video like that is not enough to judge. my sense was, DP acted to restrain JN, he was controlled and not emotional, he appeared trained to restrain, for instance, wrestling to restrain. he did not appear hot-headed or passionate. he was restraining until first responders could arrive. it wasn’t an angry street fight or anything like that.

reports from the jury seem to align with that.

a man is dead.
questions seem to be about getting retribution. unfortunately, maybe retribution for far more than this incident.
(restorative justice theory) https://restorativejustice.org/what-is- ... e-justice/

DP was not on the job as a police officer, he has no union to represent him. no job to return to. his father isn’t POTUS.
he was trying to be a good Samaritan.

Dafna Youran / Lead Daniel Penny prosecutor secured light sentence for thug who killed 87-year-old in ATM robbery
https://www.foxnews.com/us/lead-daniel- ... tm-robbery

i do not look forward to discussion on this awful incident.

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 6:02 am Daniel Penny, age 24
Incident: NYC Subway May 1, 2023
...
he was trying to be a good Samaritan.

I must have missed that part of the story of the good Samaritan. I always thought the "good Samaritan" refers to the man who tenderly cared for the wounded man whom he found, taking him to an inn and paying for his keep.

I'm not aware of any reports that Mr. Penny did any such thing - instead of helping the sick man he killed him.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:55 am

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 6:02 am Daniel Penny, age 24
Incident: NYC Subway May 1, 2023
...
he was trying to be a good Samaritan.

I must have missed that part of the story of the good Samaritan. I always thought the "good Samaritan" refers to the man who tenderly cared for the wounded man whom he found, taking him to an inn and paying for his keep.

I'm not aware of any reports that Mr. Penny did any such thing - instead of helping the sick man he killed him.

you may be correct.
from the tape i saw, along with various reports, including some admissions of prosecutors, there has been recognition DP had no intent to harm. restrain, yes. even n this forum, i’ve read some CMs and other conservatives say they would not harm or kill, but they would restrain, even physically, if they believed it would prevent harm or evil, to the person and/or others.

i didn’t see or hear anything more than that wrt this case.
if JN had been about to jump off a high bridge, similar physical force might have been necessary to save him.
i didn’t see or read anything more than that.

JN was threatening homicide, he was attempting suicide, whether he knew it or not.
his behavior+words were inviting his own death. some might say, suicide by cop.

doing anything lke this is to risk one’s own well being or life.

JN might have had a knife or gun.

i believe a black man helped restrain JN. no info on him.

in raising any child, a parent might have to restrain that child if he/she throws a tantrum, possbly endangering himself.
these are acts of responsibility and caring.

DP went above and beyond - my guess is, as much for JN as the general public.
not unlike pulling him back from jumping off a bridge.

As a young, healthy, trained Marine, if DP had wished to do harm, he was well able and could have killed JN with less effort and time he invested in what he thought was non-lethal restraint.

There are some days when a person might wish they’d just stayed in bed that day, called in sick, if they had any idea what that day would bring. i expect DP and his mother wish he would have done that on that day.

He tried to help. His life may be worse than over.

Alternatively, who knows?
With this legal system, DP may have an opportunity to bring his own lawsuit, end up a multimillionaire.
If so, i would not venture to guess whether he would think it was worth it.

One man is dead, another’s life permanently altered. Money won’t undo that.

Unanimous.

Daniel Penny beams, crowd breaks out in applause as Marine vet is acquitted in subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely
https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/d ... lys-death/

i grieve any loss of human life. i’m relieved at this verdict.
i did not celebrate the death of osama bin laden. i know many did, including obama as POTUS.

often, there are no winners.

i don’t believe DP intended to kill, i believe he intended to help. i don’t believe he will celebrate JN’s death.
i understand relief in being acquitted. i understand pain left in loss of life.

often, there is no one willing or able to even try to prevent catastrophe.
i see no positive in attempting to prevent those willing to try to help from trying. there are no guarantees.
people howl when passers-by do nothing .. the callousness.

this report could have been about more bystander deaths on a NYC subway. such a report may not have been published.

many lives are changed.

i pray for no violence in NYC or elsewhere in protest.

i pray for DP’s safety. his height, good posture, distinctive look make him an inviting target.

i presume DP knows nothing about COs, Anabaptists. maybe he’ll be introduced.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:55 am
I'm not aware of any reports that Mr. Penny did any such thing - instead of helping the sick man he killed him.

Court found him not guilty today, so he did not kill him. Neely's choices and actions killed him. Another overdose I suspect.

Careful stating someone killed another without strong evidence.

to be clear, Daniel Penny didn't kill anyone... the cops who arrived refused to do lifesaving care because they were concerned they might get a contagious disease like Hepatitis B from the now-deceased.

When officers arrived at the scene, Neely still had a pulse, according to a report from an NYPD sergeant who later explained the decision not to perform mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. The sergeant reportedly cited Neely’s unkempt appearance, describing him as “filthy” and “very dirty,” as well as concerns over possible drug use, as factors that led officers to avoid direct contact.

“He seemed to be a drug user… he was an apparent drug user. He was very dirty. I didn’t want them to get hepatitis,” the sergeant said, according to sources. “If he did wake up, he would have been vomiting. I didn’t want my officers to do that.”

The sergeant added that Neely “looked like a homeless individual” and emphasized the need to “protect” officers from potential health risks in situations involving bodily fluids. “I wouldn’t want my officer to get sick if the person throws up,” the sergeant reportedly said.

I would invite a discussion of what the right way is to deal with mentally ill, violent people who start threatening other people on public transportation. if not dealt with properly, the effect is many people become fearful of using it, and those who can afford to drive in their own cars do so... the poorest are left having to deal with this unchecked derangement and violence when they are just trying to get to work or go get groceries or go to a doctor's appointment.

if people really cared about Neely's life, he would have been placed in mandatory treatment for his mental illness, drug abuse, and not allowed out to reoffend.

Robert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:30 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:55 am
I'm not aware of any reports that Mr. Penny did any such thing - instead of helping the sick man he killed him.

Court found him not guilty today, so he did not kill him. Neely's choices and actions killed him. Another overdose I suspect.

Careful stating someone killed another without strong evidence.

Hold on - the "not guilty" finding by the court means the jury didn't find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt whether Penny committed criminally negligent homicide. I don't see how that is proof that Penny didn't kill him. Some killings are considered justified under the law.

That being said, I agree I should have phrased my comment in a way to avoid accusing Penny of killing the man.

Robert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:30 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:55 am
I'm not aware of any reports that Mr. Penny did any such thing - instead of helping the sick man he killed him.

Court found him not guilty today, so he did not kill him. Neely's choices and actions killed him. Another overdose I suspect.

Careful stating someone killed another without strong evidence.

I'm glad for Daniel Penny's sake. It's always a tough call in the heat of the moment about what to do when someone is acting out and threatening others. I personally don't think anyone can make the right decision 100% of the time at any given incident. If there's a drug overdose involved how would Penny know that? He just tried to keep others safe. For the military man that's a reflex action created by training for dangerous battle zones.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:41 pmHold on - the "not guilty" finding by the court means the jury didn't find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt whether Penny committed criminally negligent homicide. I don't see how that is proof that Penny didn't kill him. Some killings are considered justified under the law.

That being said, I agree I should have phrased my comment in a way to avoid accusing Penny of killing the man.

"Killing" is not the name of a criminal charge. "Criminally negligent homicide" is, and he was found not guilty of this charge.

Is there any doubt that he killed him?

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:31 pm to be clear, Daniel Penny didn't kill anyone... the cops who arrived refused to do lifesaving care because they were concerned they might get a contagious disease like Hepatitis B from the now-deceased.

Maybe the police could have saved his life despite what Perry did, but that doesn't mean Perry didn't kill him.

I'm not saying Perry should have been found guilty, but I don't think we should make a martyr or a hero out of him. Especially as Mennonites ...

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:06 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 1:41 pmHold on - the "not guilty" finding by the court means the jury didn't find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt whether Penny committed criminally negligent homicide. I don't see how that is proof that Penny didn't kill him. Some killings are considered justified under the law.

That being said, I agree I should have phrased my comment in a way to avoid accusing Penny of killing the man.

"Killing" is not the name of a criminal charge. "Criminally negligent homicide" is, and he was found not guilty of this charge.

Is there any doubt that he killed him?

I certainly don't have enough information to know for sure. I wouldn't count on the media to tell use if there was, and the government for sure wouldn't. Some government prosecutors have no compunctions at all about spinning the facts and claiming they prove something that no reasonable person would agree they prove.

Maybe you have been there and seen enough evidence in person to know what the facts are, but I have not been. That is why I say I should have avoided accusing Penny of killing the man.