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Breaking out from two threads...

From Zinc and Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 Treatment

ragpicker wrote:I am grateful for grey market sources for HCQ and the accompanying drugs. I can’t prove it helped me, but as a high risk individual who escaped relatively lightly, I can’t help but suspect the drug regimen helped.

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

ragpicker wrote:I am grateful for grey market sources for HCQ and the accompanying drugs. I can’t prove it helped me, but as a high risk individual who escaped relatively lightly, I can’t help but suspect the drug regimen helped.

You did what??? You took a drug, no likely several drugs, with an unknown providence, with no medical supervision, and you identify as high risk?

That is taking a BIG chance. You did not know those pills were real, were the potency on the label, were in date and not expired. There is no such thing as "grey" market prescription drugs, only black market. The less developed world is just awash in phony, improperly stored and mislabeled malaria medication, and I would be shocked if they did not wind up on our shores. Counterfeit pills have even managed to get into pharmacies, before the current system of paper trails became mandatory. I have PERSONALLY seen Halofantherine mislabeled and sold as Primaquine, admittedly in a "less developed country.

Glad you made it.

ragpicker wrote:

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

ragpicker wrote:I am grateful for grey market sources for HCQ and the accompanying drugs. I can’t prove it helped me, but as a high risk individual who escaped relatively lightly, I can’t help but suspect the drug regimen helped.

You did what??? You took a drug, no likely several drugs, with an unknown providence, with no medical supervision, and you identify as high risk?

That is taking a BIG chance. You did not know those pills were real, were the potency on the label, were in date and not expired. There is no such thing as "grey" market prescription drugs, only black market. The less developed world is just awash in phony, improperly stored and mislabeled malaria medication, and I would be shocked if they did not wind up on our shores. Counterfeit pills have even managed to get into pharmacies, before the current system of paper trails became mandatory. I have PERSONALLY seen Halofantherine mislabeled and sold as Primaquine, admittedly in a "less developed country.

Glad you made it.

Oh. This is probably not the best place to discuss me using drugs sold for veterinarian use.

Josh wrote:

There is no such thing as "grey" market prescription drugs, only black market.

I would disagree with this statement rather strongly.

ohio jones wrote:

ragpicker wrote:Oh. This is probably not the best place to discuss me using drugs sold for veterinarian use.

What else would you take for a horse cough?

ragpicker wrote:

ohio jones wrote:

ragpicker wrote:Oh. This is probably not the best place to discuss me using drugs sold for veterinarian use.

What else would you take for a horse cough?

My fish might get an infection. Fortunately, there is an antibiotic containing amoxicillin on the market I can give to my fish.

Bootstrap wrote:

ohio jones wrote:

ragpicker wrote:Oh. This is probably not the best place to discuss me using drugs sold for veterinarian use.

What else would you take for a horse cough?

He just didn't want to pony up for the more expensive medicine approved for human use.

ragpicker wrote:

Bootstrap wrote:

ohio jones wrote: What else would you take for a horse cough?

He just didn't want to pony up for the more expensive medicine approved for human use.

He wants to have it on hand for emergencies without going to an expensive urgent care facility on the weekends or at night.

Bootstrap wrote:

ragpicker wrote:

Bootstrap wrote:
He just didn't want to pony up for the more expensive medicine approved for human use.

He wants to have it on hand for emergencies without going to an expensive urgent care facility on the weekends or at night.

I was just making a horse / pony pun, there was no serious intent behind what I wrote there. I'm not claiming it was the funniest pun, but we can't all be Ohio Jones, can we ...

ragpicker wrote:

Bootstrap wrote: I was just making a horse / pony pun, there was no serious intent behind what I wrote there. I'm not claiming it was the funniest pun, but we can't all be Ohio Jones, can we ...

I missed the pun. I'm not real sharp that way. I do however come up with the wittiest retorts at times. Unfortunately, they usually come to mind 30 to 60 minutes after the situation has passed.

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

ragpicker wrote:

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
You did what??? You took a drug, no likely several drugs, with an unknown providence, with no medical supervision, and you identify as high risk?

That is taking a BIG chance. You did not know those pills were real, were the potency on the label, were in date and not expired. There is no such thing as "grey" market prescription drugs, only black market. The less developed world is just awash in phony, improperly stored and mislabeled malaria medication, and I would be shocked if they did not wind up on our shores. Counterfeit pills have even managed to get into pharmacies, before the current system of paper trails became mandatory. I have PERSONALLY seen Halofantherine mislabeled and sold as Primaquine, admittedly in a "less developed country.

Glad you made it.

Oh. This is probably not the best place to discuss me using drugs sold for veterinarian use.

That is a bad idea. Are you sure you know the actual dosage/formulation you are taking? What about the lack of medical backup In case something goes wrong? Are you sure it was the correct treatment for the problem in question? Did you check for possible interactions and contraindications?

Not to mention the legality of it. I don’t play doctor on myself, because I appreciate the danger of misdiagnosis.

I would urge you to reconsider this practice.

J.M.

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

Josh wrote:

There is no such thing as "grey" market prescription drugs, only black market.

I would disagree with this statement rather strongly.

What would you call “grey” market. If you are talking about bringing a 3 month supply from Canada/Europe that is not grey, it is legal and I have done it myself.

J.M.

RZehr wrote:

ragpicker wrote:I am grateful for grey market sources for HCQ and the accompanying drugs. I can’t prove it helped me, but as a high risk individual who escaped relatively lightly, I can’t help but suspect the drug regimen helped.

Do you carry malpractice insurance to protect you from yourself?

Josh wrote:

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

Josh wrote:
I would disagree with this statement rather strongly.

What would you call “grey” market. If you are talking about bringing a 3 month supply from Canada/Europe that is not grey, it is legal and I have done it myself.

J.M.

Purchasing substances legally but then personally using them for a different purpose. Not illegal, but you’d better know what you’re doing.

FYI, a lot of drug addicts are better at preparing the exact right dose based on body weight, accounting for water weight, etc than doctors and pharmacists are. (Another thing I don’t recommend doing.) If someone really wants to learn, this stuff isn’t terribly hard to figure out.

Me? I buy my prescriptions from a local, independent pharmacy, run by 1 guy: the pharmacist.

From Coronavirus Outbreak

Szdfan wrote:

mike wrote:I personally wish the government would take the route of trying to understand the disease, educate the public as best as they can, and let people choose how to live their lives. People are actually pretty good at self-preservation, I think.

Considering that someone on this forum just admitted to taking vet drugs without a prescription or doctor’s supervision, I don’t share your optimism.

In my area, there is still a sizable cohort that’s not taking COVID seriously.

Josh wrote:

Szdfan wrote:

mike wrote:I personally wish the government would take the route of trying to understand the disease, educate the public as best as they can, and let people choose how to live their lives. People are actually pretty good at self-preservation, I think.

Considering that someone on this forum just admitted to taking vet drugs without a prescription or doctor’s supervision, I don’t share your optimism.

In my area, there is still a sizable cohort that’s not taking COVID seriously.

So that means you want to live in a police state?

mike wrote:

Szdfan wrote:

mike wrote:I personally wish the government would take the route of trying to understand the disease, educate the public as best as they can, and let people choose how to live their lives. People are actually pretty good at self-preservation, I think.

Considering that someone on this forum just admitted to taking vet drugs without a prescription or doctor’s supervision, I don’t share your optimism.

In my area, there is still a sizable cohort that’s not taking COVID seriously.

I don't really care what that person chooses to do, it's on him, but I actually do still trust him to act in his own best interest.

It's the same in my area, but the reason is that it's not an actual threat in our area. Our county has had four deaths from covid-19 in five months. It's just not that big a deal here.

ragpicker wrote:

Szdfan wrote:Considering that someone on this forum just admitted to taking vet drugs without a prescription or doctor’s supervision, I don’t share your optimism.

Technically, it’s human drugs with the bottle labeled as vet drugs. He prefers that to dying from septic shock or spending exorbitant amounts of money to get a prescription for the same drug.

He’s performed very minor surgeries on himself too. One, he gave up on because the cut was getting too deep and there was too much blood for the awkward place of the incision. The doctor just laughed, finished the job, sewed him up, and sent him home with instructions to take out the stitches when it’s time. Others were successful. You ever slice a 1/4”+ thick, 1/2” long chunk of proud flesh off your toe? You want a sharp knife, I can tell you that.

Szdfan wrote:

ragpicker wrote:

Szdfan wrote:Considering that someone on this forum just admitted to taking vet drugs without a prescription or doctor’s supervision, I don’t share your optimism.

Technically, it’s human drugs with the bottle labeled as vet drugs. He prefers that to dying from septic shock or spending exorbitant amounts of money to get a prescription for the same drug.

He’s performed very minor surgeries on himself too. One, he gave up on because the cut was getting too deep and there was too much blood for the awkward place of the incision. The doctor just laughed, finished the job, sewed him up, and sent him home with instructions to take out the stitches when it’s time. Others were successful. You ever slice a 1/4”+ thick, 1/2” long chunk of proud flesh off your toe? You want a sharp knife, I can tell you that.

So you took intentionally mislabeled drugs from a guy who performs surgery on himself.

I’m really glad you’re OK, but I don’t think what you did is substantially different from that couple that poisoned themselves with fish tank cleaner. When it comes down to it, you don’t have any idea what you took. Could have been HCQ. Could have been something totally different. I guess you’ll have to trust the amateur surgeon.

Again, I’m really glad you’re ok. I think you rolled the dice and got lucky that you didn’t harm yourself.

Josh wrote:Szd,

The fish tank cleaning incident involved someone trying to murder their spouse. Quite different than what rp is saying.

Szdfan wrote:

Josh wrote:Szd,

The fish tank cleaning incident involved someone trying to murder their spouse. Quite different than what rp is saying.

They both took it, it killed him, she ended up in the hospital. There was a homicide investigation, but I can’t find any news stories regarding what this investigation concluded.

Even if she intended to murder him, he still took a substance without a doctor based on something he heard on TV. That’s not a smart decision.

Robert wrote:

Szdfan wrote:The FDA had to release a warning not to ingest this stuff.

Kind of like the warning labels on cigarette boxes? That really makes a difference.

Here are my own guidelines for self-doctoring, what I do for myself.

If I am pretty sure that something won't hurt, might help, and is better than the alternatives I can find, I might give it a try. But I don't do this with prescription medicines, I am cautious about taking any medicine, even if the doctor and the pharmacist suggest it, I want to know that it is likely to have a substantial benefit, and even many drugs that are FDA approved are likely to have only a minor benefit and only for some people. I weigh the potential benefit against potential side effects.

I'm also cautious about taking multiple drugs at the same time. If I am taking more than one drug for some reason, I check with a pharmacist first.

I'm even more cautious with any drug that is not approved for a given use. I think of any drug as a potential risk. Few drugs are magic. Especially long-term.

In general, I prefer to self-doctor with things that are not medicine - diet, exercise, prayer, friendship, adequate sleep, stress management, etc.

Szdfan wrote:Again, I’m really glad you’re ok. I think you rolled the dice and got lucky that you didn’t harm yourself.

I don't see it that way at all. I think I made well-researched, informed decisions that are outside of mainstream America.

The surgeries (so minor it barely fair to call them that), I performed myself on myself. The one I failed at still bugs me. Another 1/8" deeper and I would have been successful. The location just made it so difficult. Others were more successful. I never did stitch up myself, but if I had the right needle and thread, there was a situation I would have done it.

The HCQ came from a trusted friend who go it from a trusted friend in the medical world. I'm not worried about that.

The "fish medicine" is simply medicine that one day the line is packaged for human consumption and sold with a prescription. The next day it's sold for fish and sold without prescription. I learned about it from my doctor in NC. My doctor in TX said he couldn't approve it, but had no problem with it as long as I used it properly.

You see me as careless, I see myself as very cautious and involved. Shrug.

Personally, I know how to do it and I've been trained for some minor surgeries. I'd do it on myself if I had the supplies.

Soloist wrote:Personally, I know how to do it and I've been trained for some minor surgeries. I'd do it on myself if I had the supplies.

I'd like to have training. My son plans to pursue some training on emergency medicine. On a side note, he just introduced a "Med Pouch" to carry medical supplies last Friday. Out of an order of 50, he has 5 left. Our manufacturing partner has a 8 to 10 week lead time, so we are a bit stressed. We had no idea it would blow out the doors like this.

Josh:

“ FYI, a lot of drug addicts are better at preparing the exact right dose based on body weight, accounting for water weight, etc than doctors and pharmacists are. (Another thing I don’t recommend doing.) If someone really wants to learn, this stuff isn’t terribly hard to figure out.”

Actually they kill them selves on a regular basis. Seen the overdose stats lately?

My sister did just that.

J.M.

ragpicker wrote:
The HCQ came from a trusted friend who go it from a trusted friend in the medical world. .

You mean he stole or diverted it. Both are crimes.


J.M.

Soloist wrote:Personally, I know how to do it and I've been trained for some minor surgeries. I'd do it on myself if I had the supplies.

That would be a sight. How could you keep the field sterile?

J.M.

Judas Maccabeus wrote:Josh:

“ FYI, a lot of drug addicts are better at preparing the exact right dose based on body weight, accounting for water weight, etc than doctors and pharmacists are. (Another thing I don’t recommend doing.) If someone really wants to learn, this stuff isn’t terribly hard to figure out.”

Actually they kill them selves on a regular basis. Seen the overdose stats lately?

My sister did just that.

J.M.

Here they are....

More than 750,000 people have died since 1999 from a drug overdose. Two out of three drug overdose deaths in 2018 involved an opioid. Opioids are substances that work in the nervous system of the body or in specific receptors in the brain to reduce the intensity of pain. Overdose deaths involving opioids, including prescription opioids, heroin, and synthetic opioids (like fentanyl), have increased almost six times since 1999. Overdoses involving opioids killed nearly 47,000 people in 2018, and 32% of those deaths involved prescription opioids.

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/index.html

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

Soloist wrote:Personally, I know how to do it and I've been trained for some minor surgeries. I'd do it on myself if I had the supplies.

That would be a sight. How could you keep the field sterile?

J.M.

Well... I was trained as a surgical tech so I think I could manage some how.
Minor surgeries are not always "sterile" anyway and certainly are not treated the same as an open belly surgery...
I was in the Navy and I'm sure you've at least heard that Corpsmen have performed appendectomies on subs. I could do that. I've seen enough and have the techniques already... It wouldn't be very well done but I could do it with a moderate level of risk provided it remained intact. Now surgical suite... not a chance.
I'm referring to mole removals and toe nails. Maybe at the extreme... vasectomies which I am very very familiar with from working in Urology. I've done more suturing then most nurses have ever done as the doc would have me close some minor and major surgical incisions. That being said, I much prefer staples to sutures for the skin.
Specifically I would do my own toe nail. I'm tired of the doc botching it by not doing a 4 point block and feeling like a tortured person and he messed up killing the root (which I most likely would not do better at) I need a podiatrist.
When I wasn't scrubbed in to the surgery myself I was playing circulator so the nurse could be lazy. In other words, we did everything that we weren't supposed to do but I still can place a cath much better then any non-urological nurse.