Debt forgiveness

[RZehr]

If there is large scale, rare, (once a generation?) debt forgiveness put in effect, would society and its economy enjoy net benefit or not?
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/5-00 ... 00406.html

[AnthonyMartin]

I voted yes. But, I think it should be accompanied by a return to the post 2008 depression restrictions on new loans.

I'm not all that sure about this though... I understand less about this economic impact after completing my MBA than I thought I did before

Good topic!

[joshuabgood]

It helps debtors and hurts creditors. That said, I would benefit from debt forgiveness. Since no one owes me money and I have a few loans. =)

[AnthonyMartin]

It helps debtors and hurts creditors. That said, I would benefit from debt forgiveness. Since no one owes me money and I have a few loans. =)

The discussion is student loans which is government money already spent I believe...? So the economic impact would be similar to printing more money I think.

[Dan Z]

Apparently God thought it was a good idea - with the year of Jubilee

Off the top of my head - societies seem to do best, be most productive, and are most stable when a majority of folks have their feet under them economically - and an occasional wealth distribution effort can help in this regard. Whether individually or as nations, wealth tends to cluster together over time as the "haves" get more and the "have-nots" get less. While robust economic activity is ultimately the best medicine economically, debt forgiveness is one way of countering this economic tendency, especially during times of inequity or distress.

[temporal1]

I voted yes. But, I think it should be accompanied by a return to the post 2008 depression restrictions on new loans.

I'm not all that sure about this though... I understand less about this economic impact after completing my MBA than I thought I did before
Good topic!

Perhaps return to 1960-ish restrictions, no unsecured credit cards, no gov student grants/loans,
no credit without proven credit-worthiness and collateral, etc.

Personal accountability, with banks as gatekeepers, not temptresses to unwieldy debt.

i voted no, because i cannot envision such a return.
there is too much profit, and control, via unsecured debt, modern day indentured slavery.

economists channeling scriptures. 2020, here we come.

scriptures speak about not incurring debt. will they go there?

as well, when folks win big lotteries, they often end up broke or worse, in short order.

there is no way to prevent this from setting precedent to be repeated, all honest evidence is to the contrary.

i look forward to appleman’s input.

[Dan Z]

Apparently God thought it was a good idea - with the year of Jubilee

Apparently God Incarnate thought so as well...

• Luke 6:32 “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

[temporal1]

Apparently God thought it was a good idea - with the year of Jubilee

Apparently God Incarnate thought so as well...

• Luke 6:32 “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

Truth is “the best.”

Where does it morph into petitioning governments to use other peoples’ money to do what followers of Jesus are uniquely instructed to do? i suspect we are accustomed to identifying government as self, and government as God, more than is comfortable.

Does Jesus say, “Be generous with other peoples’ money?” and take personal credit for righteousness?
Truth is best. We regularly get confused with understanding.

In my personal life, i have forgiven some difficult debts. It’s hard to describe how it oddly brings no regrets. Conversely, some of my debts have been forgiven. It’s humbling. i’m grateful.

i’m not convinced extending this to gov is exactly how it’s supposed to work out.
the critical personal involvement in that passage is not there.

[appleman2006]

Volunteer debt forgiveness may occasionally be the right thing to do for a Christian creditor to his brother would is in a financial bind perhaps through no fault of his own. I think that is what I see the passage above that Dan is referring to talking about.
As far as the government allowing debts to go unpaid. A case could be made that occasionally this is not a bad thing. It is more or less turning a loan into a grant and the government makes decisions all the time to give out grants. I personally think it is not a good thing in most cases for lots of different reasons but that is a whole other issue. Our socialist system which is what we have more and more in both of our countries has decided that grants given to people are a good thing at times. So be it.

But general debt forgiveness across the board? That is a whole different ball of wax and I really think in the long run does not do what it might be intended to do. I understand the old testament year of jubilee thing and I really believe that God was trying to teach a concept by it rather than make it a stated practise. I think there is a good reason why it was never practised for any significant amount of time.

The long and short of it is that if you were to enforce a regular once every 50 year debt forgiveness what would happen that as the year of forgiveness inched closer money would be systematically harder and harder to borrow with a consistently higher and higher rate of interest. It is not rocket science. And that type of system would not really help anyone.

[appleman2006]

Apparently God thought it was a good idea - with the year of Jubilee

Apparently God Incarnate thought so as well...

• Luke 6:32 “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

Truth is “the best.”

Where does it morph into petitioning governments to use other peoples’ money to do what followers of Jesus are instructed to do? i suspect we are more accustomed to identifying government as self, and government as God, than is comfortable.

Does Jesus say, “Be generous with other peoples’ money?” and take personal credit for righteousness?
Truth is best. We regularly get confused with understanding.