The CAM scandal links and assorted other topics thread

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
joshuabgood

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by joshuabgood »

Aslanhasheard wrote:
steve-in-kville wrote:Okay, I got into that site, First impressions, having seen this before.... its the family, hands down. This like them trying to "fight back" against the media by acting all humble like they want the "real truth."
I'm surprised no one on social media has accused Trudy Metzger of starting the site.
I really am not that surprised. From my perspective, I think most people on social media (regardless of their perspective on her work), know that if she asked for things like that she would do it straight up with her name attached. (She did after all ask for pictures to accompany her one blog post).

And I think the fact that people know this about her, and that she wouldn't stoop to this anonymity, speaks well of her.
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Aurien
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Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by Aurien »

joshuabgood wrote:
Aslanhasheard wrote:
steve-in-kville wrote:Okay, I got into that site, First impressions, having seen this before.... its the family, hands down. This like them trying to "fight back" against the media by acting all humble like they want the "real truth."
I'm surprised no one on social media has accused Trudy Metzger of starting the site.
I really am not that surprised. From my perspective, I think most people on social media (regardless of their perspective on her work), know that if she asked for things like that she would do it straight up with her name attached. (She did after all ask for pictures to accompany her one blog post).

And I think the fact that people know this about her, and that she wouldn't stoop to this anonymity, increases the respectability.
From comments that I've read on Facebook I think there are people who would at least accuse her privately.
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When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you. --Firefly
appleman2006

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by appleman2006 »

Aslanhasheard wrote:
steve-in-kville wrote:Okay, I got into that site, First impressions, having seen this before.... its the family, hands down. This like them trying to "fight back" against the media by acting all humble like they want the "real truth."
I'm surprised no one on social media has accused Trudy Metzger of starting the site.
Quite frankly it is not her style. She is much more open than that.

But come on guys. Speculation can be fun but I think we are a whole lot better than that.

As far as I am concerned any site that hides in obscurity like this does not deserve to be acknowledged. It certainly does not deserve to have info sent to it. And that now represents all the time I will be giving it in its present form.

edited to say that I posted this before reading Josh's comment above but I agree with it.
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steve-in-kville

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by steve-in-kville »

I'm really not speculating. But seriously, do the math. Who would put up such a site if there are so many other sources on the web about this (including us here).

Just think about it a bit. Who benefits from this? Who looses?

ETA: I'll bet money on the fact its not Trudy. She hasn't hid since day one. Why start now?
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steve-in-kville

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by steve-in-kville »

ETA, again, I should rephrase and say its a "working theory."
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Judas Maccabeus

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Aslanhasheard wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:Frequently in clinical medicine, a site like this pops up, asking for information, normally after a high profile situation. While I don’t know for sure, we suspect the ones we see are from lawyers mining for gold.

Liability lawyers are creeper than any Mennonite I know.

If there is the potential for money, you will see the lawyers circling.

J.M.
Do the sites you see usually contain any information about the lawyer or law firm that created them?
Normally yes. I have seen some posing as a environmental group. Also seen a law firm do this when they did not wish to tip off the possible defendant.

Another possibility is that the likely defendant or his lawyers have gotten themselves a private investigator.

J.M.
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queserasera_2

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by queserasera_2 »

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Aurien
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Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by Aurien »

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No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly. --J.R.R. Tolkien

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you. --Firefly
ken_sylvania

Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by ken_sylvania »

I appreciate Trudy's willingness to correct her earlier misrepresentation of the ASC.

I think, however, that this serves to underscore why it is irresponsible to be so quick to publish "facts." Considering her description in today's post of how she learned about the ASC's supposed involvement in the case, I would say she really had no excuse to write the following.
Trudy wrote:His church and family have recruited the support of the Amish Steering Committee (ASC), a team of Amish men who come up with a Restoration Plan to be presented to law enforcement, to help Anabaptist sex offenders escape prison as consequences. A powerful committee, these men boast having had only 2 men sentenced to prison, of over 100 brought to them, in their two [edit: and a half] years since being implemented. People seem hopeful that the ASC will be able to keep this serial child molester out of prison.
Now imagine if this had been an allegation sent in to her new "sex offender list."
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Re: The *official* CAM scandal links thread

Post by Aurien »

ken_sylvania wrote:I appreciate Trudy's willingness to correct her earlier misrepresentation of the ASC.

I think, however, that this serves to underscore why it is irresponsible to be so quick to publish "facts." Considering her description in today's post of how she learned about the ASC's supposed involvement in the case, I would say she really had no excuse to write the following.
Trudy wrote:His church and family have recruited the support of the Amish Steering Committee (ASC), a team of Amish men who come up with a Restoration Plan to be presented to law enforcement, to help Anabaptist sex offenders escape prison as consequences. A powerful committee, these men boast having had only 2 men sentenced to prison, of over 100 brought to them, in their two [edit: and a half] years since being implemented. People seem hopeful that the ASC will be able to keep this serial child molester out of prison.
Now imagine if this had been an allegation sent in to her new "sex offender list."
I reckon also that maybe his family shouldn't have been spreading these "facts."
If it turns out that someone's recruiting the ASC because they sexually molested a child then maybe they should be worried.
I'm going to post part of Trudy's blog post and her FB update below for those who wish to refresh their memory.

From her blog post:

"UPDATE: Someone has reached out to suggest we form a team to manage the list. I am reaching out to a medical doctor and several other professionals to seek such support.
NOTE: Please do not send ‘speculation’ cases. There must be at least one confirmed victim, and the victim(s) must be willing to confirm. Send cases only if you are the victim, or the victims’ immediate family or if the victim has requested you send the info. Only credibly accused will make the list, and the more information that is included, the more credible. Vague, rumour-based accusations with no specific information will not be included. (Church confessions to ‘immoral failure’, in which the deviance is known to be against a child, is not speculation. That’s about as solid evidence as gets produced in our culture).
In the body of the email copy and paste the following and fill in all information, especially what has asterisks:
Name of offender:
Gender of Offender:
*Citizenship of Offender:
Date (or year) of offence:
Offender’s church at time of offence:
Was the offender a church/ministry leader (YES/NO):
If yes, what was the name of the church/ministry:
* Is offender currently in leadership:
If yes, what church/ministry:
*Age of offender at time of offence:
*Age of victim at time of offence:
*Offence committed (ie: rape; molestation etc):
*Any confirmed current minor victims (YES/NO):
*State/Province & Country of offence:
Reported to law YES/NO:
Handled by (Church Discipline/Law/Both):
Name of church leader(s) who knew:
Address of church leader (if known):
Approximate age of church leader (DOB if known):
*Name of church:
Address of Church:
*Church Affiliation (Eastern; BMA; Charity etc):
Any additional information that may be helpful:"

From her FB update:

"Regarding an OFFENDER WATCH LIST:
There is much 'upset' over my proposed Offender Watch list. Read the following, and if you wish, revisit my blog. I've done updates:
• I am asking for men *and* women to be reported. This is not against men. It is against abuse, and for victims.
• the list is a watch list, not a formal sex offender registry; it would be up to law enforcement to investigate.
• No one on the list would be 'guilty'; they simply would not be able to work in a vulnerable country
• This study indicate 2% of allegations are false:
https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi ... age_id=297
• This 10 year study indicates between 2% and 10%:
Lisak, D., Gardinier, L., Nicksa, S. C., & Cote, A. M. (2010). False allegations of sexual assault: An analysis of ten years of reported cases. Violence Against Women, 16, 1318-1334. doi:10.1177/1077801210387747
• the list would be proactive in that it would be given to officials in vulnerable countries to alert them to screen those workers more closely
• it would not be made public in any way, so it would only come into play if someone with allegations against them would try to go to a vulnerable country.
• being on the list does not make the accused guilt
• being interviewed by the country they go to serve, and being cleared, does not make them innocent"
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No half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly. --J.R.R. Tolkien

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you. --Firefly
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