Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

the tenor taken seems mostly to discredit members here who are sharing info, hopes, and prayers in good faith.
that’s sad.

I haven’t named anyone or called anyone out. There are emphatic statements being made as “truth” that are either factually incorrect or overly simplistic.

I do think there will eventually be a negotiated settlement, but not until one or both sides feel that continuing to fight the war costs more than compromise. Until that point is reached, this war is going to be a disastrous, miserable slog. Of course, most wars are miserable slogs until one or both sides can’t do it anymore,

I don’t think Ukraine giving the Russians everything they demand is feasible or achieves peace. There are a lot of really complicated issues here.

The absence of war is not the same thing as peace. Not by a long stretch.

[temporal1]

We thought likewise but those who had been under the Taliban knew when we left, the Taliban would still be there and we wouldn't.

Generally speaking, those that wage war have to justify their actions somehow otherwise the evil of what they do will destroy them.

yes.

my prayers have been for resolution in Ukraine.
i pray for peace, too. but resolution does not auto-translate to peace.
i pray for resolution in the U.S., too, which is not in a state of peace, but over filled with destructive division within.

[temporal1]

We thought likewise but those who had been under the Taliban knew when we left, the Taliban would still be there and we wouldn't.

Generally speaking, those that wage war have to justify their actions somehow otherwise the evil of what they do will destroy them.

you might know? i’m not sure.
there are a few forum members who are former active military, some were drafted/vietnam, but others, too. some read-only, or rarely post. i don’t believe any are answering the current drumbeats to war. that’s most often how it is, i believe. you are not alone.

[Szdfan]

The potential for urban combat in Kiev seems terrifying.

From the NYT:

To the northwest and to the east, tens of thousands of Russian troops are pressing toward the city, Ukraine’s capital, backed by columns of tanks, armored vehicles and artillery. Inside Kyiv, Ukrainian soldiers and civilian volunteers are fortifying the downtown with barriers, anti-tank mines and artillery.

Kyiv remains the biggest prize of all for the Russian military; it is the seat of government and ingrained in both Russian and Ukrainian identity. But capturing it, military analysts say, would require a furious and bloody conflict that could be the world’s biggest urban battle in 80 years.

“What we are looking at in Kyiv would dwarf anything we’ve seen since World War II,” said David Kilcullen, a retired lieutenant colonel in the Australian Army who has extensively studied urban combat. “If they really, really want to level Kyiv, they can,” he said of the Russian leadership. “But the level of political and economic damage would be tremendous.”

For comparison, one of the largest urban battles this century was the nine-month siege of Mosul, Iraq, in 2016 and 2017 to oust its Islamic State occupiers. Mosul covers 70 square miles and had a wartime population of about 750,000 people — a fraction of the numbers for Kyiv, where the metropolitan area’s prewar population was 3.6 million.

[Szdfan]

The absence of war is not the same thing as peace. Not by a long stretch.

Yes, which is why I don’t believe that the loss of Ukrainian sovereignty and a situation where Russia can beat up its neighbors it considers to be under its “sphere of influence” is in any way “peace.”

[Soloist]

you might know? i’m not sure.
there are a few forum members who are former active military, some were drafted/vietnam, but others, too. some read-only, or rarely post. i don’t believe any are answering the current drumbeats to war. that’s most often how it is, i believe. you are not alone.

I'm prior Navy Corpsman, my wife was a Radio Tech, we have an officer from Vietnam in our church, I've spoken to several other vets... It seems in some way that ex-military are relatively high numbers among the few seekers. Another fellow I know got discharged over the vaccine (fetal cells) and he is becoming non-resistant and would feel pretty similar.

The majority of my training was in surgical specialty but I took a field medical training to run with Marines. I was deployed on two TAD orders, once to Cuba, and once to the NATO base in Italy. War changes you, and not in a good way and no one until they actually see war truly understand. Same goes for me, but I'm closer then most. I'm very thankful my wife and I did not ever have to shoot someone or have real fire coming at us. Plenty of mock war games with mortars, assaults on enemy positions and so on. My wife actually fired more weapons then me

[Soloist]

you might know? i’m not sure.
there are a few forum members who are former active military, some were drafted/vietnam, but others, too. some read-only, or rarely post. i don’t believe any are answering the current drumbeats to war. that’s most often how it is, i believe. you are not alone.

I'm prior Navy Corpsman, my wife was a Radio Tech, we have an officer from Vietnam in our church, I've spoken to several other vets... It seems in some way that ex-military are relatively high numbers among the few seekers. Another fellow I know got discharged over the vaccine (fetal cells) and he is becoming non-resistant and would feel pretty similar.

The majority of my training was in surgical specialty but I took a field medical training to run with Marines. I was deployed on two TAD orders, once to Cuba, and once to the NATO base in Italy. War changes you, and not in a good way and no one until they actually see war truly understand. Same goes for me, but I'm closer then most. I'm very thankful my wife and I did not ever have to shoot someone or have real fire coming at us. Plenty of mock war games with mortars, assaults on enemy positions and so on. My wife actually fired more weapons then me

Random sidenote from the wife: Lately I have been thinking that whoeverf thought I could make a good soldier was a dingbat (including myself). War is so horribly disgusting, what 'normal' people will do in combat is horrible and I always figured I'd get ptsd if I did go. Also, it seems like whatever side you are fighting for, many soldiers do their best to dehumanize their opponents, probably to make the whole thing easier. I think that was half the reason I got turned off of the military during boot camp and beyond. Just talk to some of our military/former military about what they think of Muslims or listen in on some of their jokes. Not all of them, but I think many of our military members could be convinced to do the same things the Russians are doing as long as the victims were Muslims or some other group they've been trained to hate and fear.

[Falco Underhill]

I thought this was interesting, and maybe has some credibility since it was made a year ago. Before current troubles.

From the end of the second video —

"If President Trump is re-elected it's likely Putin will take that as a green light to invade ..."

Two facts to consider here:

1. The Orange revolution occurred during the Obama/Biden administration,
when Biden was Obama's point man in Ukraine. Don't you suppose it's possible Putin suspected the Obama/Biden administration was behind that, even if others regard that as just a conspiracy theory?

2. If Trump was really so on board with Russia taking back Ukraine, wouldn't it have made more sense to go in while Trump was still in office, instead of waiting till the Biden administration got in?

I don’t have any comments on these questions one way or another.

On the question of U.S. involvement in the Orange Revolution (which overthrew a democratically elected leader) and the role played by fascist nationalist militias, too, I think this article is a good one:

https://m.theepochtimes.com/before-russ ... ium=search

[temporal1]

you might know? i’m not sure.
there are a few forum members who are former active military, some were drafted/vietnam, but others, too. some read-only, or rarely post. i don’t believe any are answering the current drumbeats to war. that’s most often how it is, i believe. you are not alone.

I'm prior Navy Corpsman, my wife was a Radio Tech, we have an officer from Vietnam in our church, I've spoken to several other vets... It seems in some way that ex-military are relatively high numbers among the few seekers. Another fellow I know got discharged over the vaccine (fetal cells) and he is becoming non-resistant and would feel pretty similar.

The majority of my training was in surgical specialty but I took a field medical training to run with Marines. I was deployed on two TAD orders, once to Cuba, and once to the NATO base in Italy.

War changes you, and not in a good way and no one until they actually see war truly understand.

Same goes for me, but I'm closer then most. I'm very thankful my wife and I did not ever have to shoot someone or have real fire coming at us. Plenty of mock war games with mortars, assaults on enemy positions and so on. My wife actually fired more weapons then me

my best friend married a young man just after high school, he soon left for vietnam. they had a baby the first year. being a wife+mother was her ultimate dream. when he returned he was so changed, unrecognizable, altho not injured.
she was afraid of him. she couldn’t stay in contact with me, he forbade it. i respected her letter that explained i shouldn’t contact her. a few years later, i happened to find out she was dead, suicide. a rifle. her young son found her. i was distraught, inconsolable, really.

i talked with my father, we’d been close friends since 13, constantly together. he knew her well.
my father didn’t hesitate. “he killed her. no way she did this.” i was shocked. but. it could be. i can’t imagine she knew how to handle a rifle. maybe, but, not when i knew her. females don’t usually use firearms. she would have NEVER left a situation where the boy found her. i’m sure of that much. she was afraid of him. the letter she wrote.

so. decades later, i still wonder. i think i’ve located the boy, now grown, on the internet. he seems to be doing fine.
i’ve not tried to contact him. i don’t want to interfere. his father is present. i’m afraid of his father. i pray.

this is the closest i’ve come to describing this. i’ve wondered if i shouldn’t have .. done something. (you know, like the Cold Case mystery series?) i haven’t. people have things that haunt them. things done, and not done. things not done can be tough, too.

but, yes. wars change people. probably being in the military, even in peace time, is life changing.

i’ve never met anyone who has served, or been to war, that is pro-war. i’ve never met anyone who went to war who was not harmed, even if not physically injured.

[temporal1]

you might know? i’m not sure.
there are a few forum members who are former active military, some were drafted/vietnam, but others, too. some read-only, or rarely post. i don’t believe any are answering the current drumbeats to war. that’s most often how it is, i believe. you are not alone.

I'm prior Navy Corpsman, my wife was a Radio Tech, we have an officer from Vietnam in our church, I've spoken to several other vets... It seems in some way that ex-military are relatively high numbers among the few seekers. Another fellow I know got discharged over the vaccine (fetal cells) and he is becoming non-resistant and would feel pretty similar.

The majority of my training was in surgical specialty but I took a field medical training to run with Marines. I was deployed on two TAD orders, once to Cuba, and once to the NATO base in Italy. War changes you, and not in a good way and no one until they actually see war truly understand. Same goes for me, but I'm closer then most. I'm very thankful my wife and I did not ever have to shoot someone or have real fire coming at us. Plenty of mock war games with mortars, assaults on enemy positions and so on. My wife actually fired more weapons then me

Random sidenote from the wife:
Lately I have been thinking that whoeverf thought I could make a good soldier was a dingbat (including myself).

War is so horribly disgusting, what 'normal' people will do in combat is horrible and I always figured I'd get ptsd if I did go.
Also, it seems like whatever side you are fighting for, many soldiers do their best to dehumanize their opponents, probably to make the whole thing easier.

I think that was half the reason I got turned off of the military during boot camp and beyond.
Just talk to some of our military/former military about what they think of Muslims or listen in on some of their jokes. Not all of them, but I think many of our military members could be convinced to do the same things the Russians are doing as long as the victims were Muslims or some other group they've been trained to hate and fear.

i never thot i’d last a day in the military, no matter what. even when i was young+spry+lively+active. i just couldn’t.
when i read a little of the entry oaths required, i couldn’t get past it. you had to promise to kill. i couldn’t promise that.
even if i tried to convince myself “it’ll never happen.” i do think there’s a lot of denial involved. and, dehumanizing.
i was just too literal to get past it. i remember the sick feeling i had about it, even at age 18-19. it hasn’t changed.

when talk came up about women in the military, drafts, etc., i thot, “it’s bad enough for males, why double the wrong?!”
in recent years, seeing females WITH CHILDREN deployed into harm’s way - featured as tho this is a good thing, i grieve.
i do not see it as a good thing.

the military is designing maternity uniforms.

i see what’s happening. i’m definitely opposed. i don’t oppose the soldiers. Jesus did not oppose or hate soldiers.
i oppose policies that lead to war. i oppose females being rewarded, enticed to join, i oppose the female draft.
i oppose any draft. the female draft just makes it all the worse.

find ways to avoid the “necessity” of drafts.