Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

[Judas Maccabeus]

I would suspect they will be exporting meth quite soon.

If they don’t blow themselves all the way to Tacoma first.

[temporal1]

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From what i read, and my daughter shares, Seattle’s mayor is supplying the (anarchists/political pawns) with food, portapotties, probably charging stations for their phones+devices .. i’m not surprised to see they have a wish-list for “more.”

If they were not so supplied, they would either have gone home, or continued looting to TAKE what they want. They are holding taxpayers hostage.

A big block party at others’ expense, both taxpayers and private citizens and business. (i wonder what insurance companies are calculating?)

i told my daughter, as long as their needs are met, no problem continuing until November.
frankly, this is the way LOADS of people live on the west coast, transient/permanent. with lots of legal rights. for the taking. they are FAR from independent. very dependent.

President Trump offered legal military assistance to WA’s DNC gov and mayor, both rejected, taking the opportunity to speak very disrespectfully to him in the process. IT’S POLITICAL. it’s about November.

they ALL know the greatest value of military assistance is deterrence.
i do not presume shots would be fired. but, the possibility of shots fired should not be ignored.
the goal should be to restore order, with no shots fired.

i agree with those who believe these are destructive, risky political games that are almost guaranteed to backfire. who ultimately benefits from creating a culture of citizens who refuse to be governed? historically, not a pretty picture.

“Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.”

I would suspect they will be exporting meth quite soon.

Without reviewing, i believe the original “Summer of Love” quickly devolved because all manner criminals, opportunists, were drawn to it like-a-magnet. Esp drug abuse, drug pushers, etc.

Beside that, today’s imitators lack the music/heart/soul that was created/expressed in those years. i was a teen/young adult. the music. by some miracle, i avoided drugs. the music was intoxicating, fresh, it seemed daily. the talent. i was dismayed that so much of it seemed wrapped up in drugs. i couldn’t understand how anyone could create as they did, under the influence. i still can’t.

music was a big part of those days.
because it was so seductive, i’m almost glad it’s not a part of current times. i’m not sure what to think. the music of the day was secular. it promoted worldly love/lust.

i’m not sure why everything today “has” to harken back to prior times?
the 60’s, the Nazis, the Cold War, the Spanish flu. today, everyone seems to want to latch onto some prior period.

to me, it’s weird. and, less-than.
history is important! but attempting to glob-onto a prior event, OUT OF CONTEXT, will fall short. imitations rarely “get it right.” often, they fall-flat.

(i wonder) if this isn’t an outcome of so many law school graduates in the world?
the pervasive law school mentality.
law schools live+die on establishing “legal precedent.”

law schools are not known for creativity, or “heart and soul.” they focus on division, and winning word games. it’s all about The Win. unfortunately, it appears “we” are “here.”

for the sake of young people and children, i hope “we” move on from “here.”
too many law degrees. not enough Jesus.

[Ken]

President Trump offered legal military assistance to WA’s DNC gov and mayor, both rejected, taking the opportunity to speak very disrespectfully to him in the process. IT’S POLITICAL. it’s about November.

they ALL know the greatest value of military assistance is deterrence.
i do not presume shots would be fired. but, the possibility of shots fired should not be ignored.
the goal should be to restore order, with no shots fired.

Honestly, here on a Menno forum I'm rather shocked to read all this cheerleading for Trump to deploy military force to attack citizens in an American city. Listen to yourselves. Would you feel the same way about sending in Federal troops to shoot people to break up a church meeting that was being conducted in defiance of quarantine laws?

In any event, the mayor of Seattle has at her disposal a city police force of about 1,900 officers and the governor has at his disposal a National Guard force of 8,200 and a state police force of about 1500. Do you really think they need to invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act and call up the Army Rangers from Fort Lewis to deal with some peaceful protesters occupying a few blocks in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood?

Under what legal authority do you think Trump would be acting if he sent in troops without state request? Or are you fine with tyranny as long as you agree with the president who is doing it? Read the Insurrection Act and tell us on what legal basis Trump would be acting if he sent in troops without the request of Governor Inslee.

I'm not a cheerleader for these CHAZ activists who are breaking the law anymore than I am a cheerleader for religious groups who broke lawful quarantine orders by continuing to hold large group meetings. In fact, that exact thing just happened here in Oregon in Union County in eastern Oregon where a large Pentecostal church defied large the large group meeting ban several weeks ago and generated the largest single-day increase in COVID cases of the entire epidemic in Oregon with over 200 new cases attributed to one worship service:

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... cases.html

Sounds like Governor Kate Brown really dropped the ball with those Pentecostals. Should Trump send in the Army Rangers to shoot that place up too?

Or maybe we should all take a deep breath, take a step back, and search for peaceful and non-military ways to resolve conflicts. Isn't that what being Anabaptist is all about?

[Robert]

Honestly, here on a Menno forum I'm rather shocked to read all this cheerleading for Trump to deploy military force to attack citizens in an American city.

This is really an exaggeration. He would nationalize the National Guard and use them as a body of presence just as governors use them during disasters.

I am surprised by some who want to see more riots and show a lack of concern for the lives lost from the violence during the riots.

[Ken]

Honestly, here on a Menno forum I'm rather shocked to read all this cheerleading for Trump to deploy military force to attack citizens in an American city.

This is really an exaggeration. He would nationalize the National Guard and use them as a body of presence just as governors use them during disasters.

I am surprised by some who want to see more riots and show a lack of concern for the lives lost from the violence during the riots.

No it is not an exaggeration. Just last week Trump wanted to deploy 10,000 active duty troops to Washington DC. Not National Guard, the 82 Airborne Division and additional active duty support troops. That is more soldiers then we currently have deployed in Afghanistan.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minn ... SKBN23E0DY WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump told his advisors at one point this past week he wanted 10,000 troops to deploy to the Washington D.C. area to halt civil unrest over the killing of a black man by Minneapolis police, according to a senior U.S. official.

The account of Trump’s demand during a heated Oval Office conversation on Monday shows how close the president may have come to fulfilling his threat to deploy active duty troops in U.S. cities, despite opposition from Pentagon leadership.

At the meeting, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, and Attorney General William Barr recommended against such a deployment, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The meeting was “contentious,” the official added.

But also key for Trump appears to have been Esper’s move to preposition — but not deploy — active duty soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division and other units in the Washington D.C. area. Those troops have since departed.

“Having active duty forces available but not in the city was enough for the president for the time,” the official said.

[Robert]

At the meeting, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, and Attorney General William Barr recommended against such a deployment, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

It well may be true, but we have seen this dance before. Those anonymous sources always seem to get things wrong. I would not be surprised if he wanted to do this, but just some anonymous source does not validate it for me.

[Ken]

At the meeting, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, and Attorney General William Barr recommended against such a deployment, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

It well may be true, but we have seen this dance before. Those anonymous sources always seem to get things wrong. I would not be surprised if he wanted to do this, but just some anonymous source does not validate it for me.

Whether or not it is true is not really relevant to my larger point was that it sounds like folks here ON THIS FORUM are cheerleading the deployment of Federal troops to Seattle. Which strikes me as the polar opposite of an Anabaptist peacemaking approach to conflict resolution.

[Josh]

At the meeting, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, and Attorney General William Barr recommended against such a deployment, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

It well may be true, but we have seen this dance before. Those anonymous sources always seem to get things wrong. I would not be surprised if he wanted to do this, but just some anonymous source does not validate it for me.

Whether or not it is true is not really relevant to my larger point was that it sounds like folks here ON THIS FORUM are cheerleading the deployment of Federal troops to Seattle. Which strikes me as the polar opposite of an Anabaptist peacemaking approach to conflict resolution.

Ken,

A lot of people on this forum are not Anabaptists or conservative Anabaptists. A few tirelessly promote stereotypical left or right wing political views.

Sorry if it offends you but MN is basically a free speech zone where people like temporal1 may speak freely. If you didn’t like what she said, address her directly.

[Josh]

'm not a cheerleader for these CHAZ activists who are breaking the law anymore than I am a cheerleader for religious groups who broke lawful quarantine orders by continuing to hold large group meetings.

Quarantine orders against normal religious services are unlawful, and courts have consistently sided with citizens on the first amendment.

If people want to meet and hold religious services, they have the freedom to do so, despite risks of spreading or catching disease. Despite what any petty tyrant would like to say otherwise.

Personally I am more concerned about disease spending at large mass protests than at church services.

[Ken]

My guess is that reparations will sooner or later be in the list of demands, if it is not there already.

I grew up int he north where my family fought on the side of the Union. Should I pay less since it was Union families who paid the price? Should we just tax the south? The challenge is I moved to Texas and grew up there. Should I pay more or less? Do they still want the mule?

I think the reparations thing is something of a distraction but you do realize that the systemic discrimination they are talking about when it comes to reparations did not end in 1865 at Appomattox. You grew up in Texas? How many years after Appomattox were black students were finally admitted to attend the University of Texas or Texas A&M? Do you know when the first black football players were offered scholarships to UT? Texas was still fielding an all-white segregated football team as late as 1969. How many years after Appomattox were black farmers in Texas finally able to use the same price supports, loans, and crop insurance that white farmers had available? How many years after Appomattox were black GIs able to use the GI bill to attend Texas universities and use GI loans to buy houses in white suburbs?

The legacy of slavery and discrimination continues to this day. If you are white then you benefited from it whether or not you or your family actually participated, and regardless of which side you ancestors fought or didn't fight during the Civil War. I benefited from it by living in a country that put more resources into white schools and white communities than it did to communities of color. I benefited by being white and male for every job interview I ever attended. For every apartment I ever rented, and for every loan I ever applied for. I benefited I didn't have as many students of color to compete with at college than would have been the case in a colorblind society. And I benefited by not being harassed by police every time I drove through my neighborhood, and not getting arrested for some of the stupid stuff I did when I was young. And my kids continue to benefit from the same things today.

Does that mean we owe reparations? Honestly, just tilting the playing field back to level is such an enormous task and would cost hundreds of billions and would be an enormous achievement. And that is even before we start talking about reparations for the past. So I dunno. First things first I guess.