Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

[temporal1]

The world has always-always had its 1%, or smaller, elite ruling class. The pyramids did not build themselves.
The historical anomaly WAS a large comfortable vibrant independent middle class. The shift seems to be away from it.

My guess is, it’s unlikely the anomaly will last very long, on history’s lengthy timeline / God’s timing.
None of us will exist long enough to know for certain. That system depended on loads of people willing to work hard, long hours for .. hope to do better .. largely for the coming generations.

The selflessness in that has faded.

Scriptures say nothing about majority rule. Truth is rarely a majority opinion or choice.

[Robert]

Just to offer an alternative opinion to Robert's evaluation on Musk wealth....
In my observation oligarchical wealth is created by breaking rules (cheating), destroying existing economic systems with little care for human cost and access to government subsidy. Musk is most egregiously connected to the latter. His wealth generation program would not have been possible without no-bid government contracts. Beyond that his cars are recipients of staggering subsidy through rebates, at one time amounting to more than $7,000 per unit.

I won't deny his moxy or creativity, but his wealth deserves clear eyed scrutiny. Where I am from they say "When you see a turtle on a fence post, you know he had help gettin' there."

Of course, certain people have crowed loudly how evil gasoline powered cars and how badly we need electric cars. Musk finally delivered a widely available electric car that anyone could buy - basically the first to do this. (The big 3 also spent lots of government grants but never made it to offering all electric cars to the public.) And I have seen not much scrutiny at all of government funding to bail out GM and Chrysler, which far exceeded anything paid go Mr Musk.

On the Tesla side, I agree. There was a lot of funding that assisted those who purchased electric cars. I hope to see that disappear. He created, sold Paypal, then started SpaceX without any major government funding. So not all he has done came from government support. SpaceX was one of several private space agencies that got contracts. SO far, SpaceX is the sole success story of those contracts and the government has saved massive amounts of money using SpaceX since they have gotten the launch cost down so much.

I do not think Twitter will be a financial success. He stated that he did not buy it for that reason. He felt free speech was so important, he purchased it for that reason. He is working to make it profitable, but that has not happened yet, but free speech is generally available on it now. SO his reasons for buying Twitter are more in line with using his wealth for positive impact on society.

[Josh]

SpaceX has saved the government lots of money compared to the boondoggle that NASA was. Musk should get an award for how much money he saved the government.

Replacing NASA with SpaceX for heavy launch capacity was one of Obama’s best decisions.

[Ken]

Just to offer an alternative opinion to Robert's evaluation on Musk wealth....
In my observation oligarchical wealth is created by breaking rules (cheating), destroying existing economic systems with little care for human cost and access to government subsidy. Musk is most egregiously connected to the latter. His wealth generation program would not have been possible without no-bid government contracts. Beyond that his cars are recipients of staggering subsidy through rebates, at one time amounting to more than $7,000 per unit.

I won't deny his moxy or creativity, but his wealth deserves clear eyed scrutiny. Where I am from they say "When you see a turtle on a fence post, you know he had help gettin' there."

Of course, certain people have crowed loudly how evil gasoline powered cars and how badly we need electric cars. Musk finally delivered a widely available electric car that anyone could buy - basically the first to do this. (The big 3 also spent lots of government grants but never made it to offering all electric cars to the public.) And I have seen not much scrutiny at all of government funding to bail out GM and Chrysler, which far exceeded anything paid go Mr Musk.

The sums are actually pretty similar. Most of the Big 3 bailout in 2008 was structured in the form of loans and equity that were paid back. At the same time, Tesla has benefited from billions in subsidies of its own. Both state subsidies in CA and TX, transferable clean energy tax credits, e-vehicle tax credits, pandemic relief funds, and billions more in the recent infrastructure bill. If you add up all the government subsidies that Tesla has received over the years it is in the same ballpark or more than the Big 3 individually.

The more egregious treatment of the Big 3 are things like tariff protections for light trucks and special treatment on mileage standards which basically subsidize all the massive SUVs and trucks we see taking over our highways. That isn't the free market at work. That is government intervention producing that result.

[Josh]

Tariffs are necessary because other countries have less strict environmental and labour laws.

Unless you’d like to see Chinese labour laws, wages, etc. in America.

[Ken]

Tariffs are necessary because other countries have less strict environmental and labour laws.

Unless you’d like to see Chinese labour laws, wages, etc. in America.

The "chicken tax" which protects light trucks was put in place decades ago to protect the Big 3 against competition from Germany and Japan which have equal or superior labor and environmental laws to the US.

It is nothing more than a form of subsidy for the Big 3. It is hypocritical to criticize the Big 3 for taking subsidies and then defend that tariff protections that make light trucks tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than they would otherwise be. They are all one in the same thing: Government interventions into the marketplace that are born on the backs of US taxpayers.

[Josh]

Tariffs are necessary because other countries have less strict environmental and labour laws.

Unless you’d like to see Chinese labour laws, wages, etc. in America.

The "chicken tax" which protects light trucks was put in place decades ago to protect the Big 3 against competition from Germany and Japan which have equal or superior labor and environmental laws to the US.

It is nothing more than a form of subsidy for the Big 3. It is hypocritical to criticize the Big 3 for taking subsidies and then defend that tariff protections that make light trucks tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than they would otherwise be.

We need good manufacturing jobs in America, not an even worse trade deficit. And making trucks in America also means more American steel, jobs at steel mills, and less greenhouse gasses shipping stuff all over the world. Why not make things close to him instead of on the other side of the world?

We can keep our American made trucks and keep our jobs for Americans. The Japanese and Germans can go sell to someone else.

They are all one in the same thing: Government interventions into the marketplace that are born on the backs of US taxpayers.

Tariffs put money back in the pockets of American taxpayers.

[Ken]

Tariffs are necessary because other countries have less strict environmental and labour laws.

Unless you’d like to see Chinese labour laws, wages, etc. in America.

The "chicken tax" which protects light trucks was put in place decades ago to protect the Big 3 against competition from Germany and Japan which have equal or superior labor and environmental laws to the US.

It is nothing more than a form of subsidy for the Big 3. It is hypocritical to criticize the Big 3 for taking subsidies and then defend that tariff protections that make light trucks tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than they would otherwise be.

We need good manufacturing jobs in America, not an even worse trade deficit. And making trucks in America also means more American steel, jobs at steel mills, and less greenhouse gasses shipping stuff all over the world. Why not make things close to him instead of on the other side of the world?

We can keep our American made trucks and keep our jobs for Americans. The Japanese and Germans can go sell to someone else.

They are all one in the same thing: Government interventions into the marketplace that are born on the backs of US taxpayers.

Tariffs put money back in the pockets of American taxpayers.

Nonsense. Tariffs are paid by American taxpayers. That is how tariffs work. You pay for them in the form of higher prices. That is basic Econ 101. They are why the cost of some light trucks is pushing past $80,000.

You may think they are a cost worth bearing. Which is a different argument. But it is no different from the auto-bailout that you criticized. Or the billions in government subsidies that Tesla is taking advantage of.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of having an industrial policy in this country that favors American jobs and manufacturing. But not the current wasteful and irrational hodge-podge of policies that reduce choices and increases costs for American consumers, and makes vehicles and highways more dangerous and less efficient.

[Josh]

Anyone can choose to buy an import vehicle. Mercedes tried importing them for a while (and they were garbage vehicles). Their reputation got to be so bad that they rebranded them as International and Dodge for a while.

Tariffs are not a subsidy; they are a tax like any other tax. It is interesting, in that I perceive you usually are very in favour of high taxes on American workers like income taxes, etc. but suddenly are opposed to a tax that helps the American worker keep good jobs here.

[temporal1]

Josh:
.. that helps the American worker keep good jobs here.

Jobs.
(i believe) some of what we’re witnessing is not so much dire poverty (yet) but comfortable idleness that leaves many (men) feeling “unmoored,” “lost at sea,” etc.

People thrive on purpose.
The former culture was based on NEED to care for wives+families, NEED to work at difficult jobs that might not pay very well, but were necessary, the satisfaction of doing what was needed.

Often, when young people are out “rioting” / partying at the expense of others, literally for the fun of it, questions arise, “how many work boots are stolen?” .. i think a wry, but fair, question.

Many are living with more than basic needs met, young people need more. They need a sense of purpose.
The efficiency gods don’t think about the human cost of lack of jobs.

“Idle hands are the devil’s workshop.”