Mennonite Measles in Texas

[JohnH]

It is a chart of childhood mortality (from all sources) which illustrates the point that millions upon millions of children used to die in childhood before modern medicine of which vaccines are only one part. The biggest cause of death in the 19th century was actually tuberculosis which was controlled (but not eradicated) with antibiotics, quarantines, sanitation, and other science-based methods.

If you want to argue that vaccines don't work, go ahead. What are you going to do as an alternative? Bloodletting? Homeopathy?

The death rate plummeted in 1950. What reason do you give?

how about you read the reasons the CDC gives aside from vaccine programs.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrht ... ars%20(1).

and I’ve been happy to take the tdap vaccine and one of my kids has it. However before further vaccinations I am awaiting unbiased, scientific data.

[Ken]

It’s your chart! It shows a sharp decrease before vaccines were introduced.

It is a chart of childhood mortality (from all sources) which illustrates the point that millions upon millions of children used to die in childhood before modern medicine of which vaccines are only one part. The biggest cause of death in the 19th century was actually tuberculosis which was controlled (but not eradicated) with antibiotics, quarantines, sanitation, and other science-based methods.

If you want to argue that vaccines don't work, go ahead. What are you going to do as an alternative? Bloodletting? Homeopathy?

The death rate plummeted in 1950. What reason do you give?

What? Do you want a history of public health in the US? There are a whole lot of factors and advancements in science and medicine of which vaccines were only one part. Also things like:

• Public water and sanitation projects
• Pasteurized milk which prevented the spread of tuberculosis, listeria, salmonella and other diseases.
• Improved prenatal care and modern obstetrics which reduced infant mortality at birth
• Antibiotics
• Regulation of the food and drug industry, especially industries like meat packing.

But to claim that vaccines are not part of the picture is to be in willful denial of the facts.

[JohnH]

It is a chart of childhood mortality (from all sources) which illustrates the point that millions upon millions of children used to die in childhood before modern medicine of which vaccines are only one part. The biggest cause of death in the 19th century was actually tuberculosis which was controlled (but not eradicated) with antibiotics, quarantines, sanitation, and other science-based methods.

If you want to argue that vaccines don't work, go ahead. What are you going to do as an alternative? Bloodletting? Homeopathy?

The death rate plummeted in 1950. What reason do you give?

What? Do you want a history of public health in the US? There are a whole lot of factors and advancements in science and medicine of which vaccines were only one part. Also things like:

• Public water and sanitation projects
• Pasteurized milk which prevented the spread of tuberculosis, listeria, salmonella and other diseases.
• Improved prenatal care and modern obstetrics which reduced infant mortality at birth
• Antibiotics
• Regulation of the food and drug industry, especially industries like meat packing.

But to claim that vaccines are not part of the picture is to be in willful denial of the facts.

You’re the one that decided to post the pic of that chart.

[Ken]

The death rate plummeted in 1950. What reason do you give?

What? Do you want a history of public health in the US? There are a whole lot of factors and advancements in science and medicine of which vaccines were only one part. Also things like:

• Public water and sanitation projects
• Pasteurized milk which prevented the spread of tuberculosis, listeria, salmonella and other diseases.
• Improved prenatal care and modern obstetrics which reduced infant mortality at birth
• Antibiotics
• Regulation of the food and drug industry, especially industries like meat packing.

But to claim that vaccines are not part of the picture is to be in willful denial of the facts.

You’re the one that decided to post the pic of that chart.

The chart is accurate. There are many reasons why childhood mortality has declined in the past 100 years.

You are the one falsely claiming that:

Vaccines have nothing to do with eliminating childhood illnesses/death, and I’m tired of pretending they do.

[Judas Maccabeus]

What? Do you want a history of public health in the US? There are a whole lot of factors and advancements in science and medicine of which vaccines were only one part. Also things like:

• Public water and sanitation projects
• Pasteurized milk which prevented the spread of tuberculosis, listeria, salmonella and other diseases.
• Improved prenatal care and modern obstetrics which reduced infant mortality at birth
• Antibiotics
• Regulation of the food and drug industry, especially industries like meat packing.

But to claim that vaccines are not part of the picture is to be in willful denial of the facts.

You’re the one that decided to post the pic of that chart.

The chart is accurate. There are many reasons why childhood mortality has declined in the past 100 years.

You are the one falsely claiming that:

Vaccines have nothing to do with eliminating childhood illnesses/death, and I’m tired of pretending they do.

Kinda of hard to sell that to someone who has spent time in the third world. Hygiene has not changed much in India, there are still open sewers almost everywhere. Yet there is no Polio, Diphtheria < 50 cases /year, most unvaccinated and only minimal measles. It sure is not "hygiene" that is stopping it.

BTW, I had two uncles die from diphtheria before I was born. They lived in Baltimore city, which has had fairly good water systems from before the turn of the century. They were unvaccinated. Conditions there far better than India today. SO where is the diphtheria in India? Hygiene is not much better.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5544098/

The "Hygiene" hypothesis simply does not stand up to truth.

[barnhart]

I wonder if the next 50 years will see some hard lessons about communicable childhood diseases being re- learned.

[Soloist]

I wonder if the next 50 years will see some hard lessons about communicable childhood diseases being re- learned.

As long as they refuse to provide ethical options… Especially when they actually exist… any hard lesson well at least be shared blame for them.

I mean, I can at least hold out hope that maybe Trump changes imports on medical things.

[barnhart]

I wonder if the next 50 years will see some hard lessons about communicable childhood diseases being re- learned.

As long as they refuse to provide ethical options… Especially when they actually exist… any hard lesson well at least be shared blame for them.

I mean, I can at least hold out hope that maybe Trump changes imports on medical things.

I have no problem with that. Other options would be good.

[Wesleyb]

I wonder if the next 50 years will see some hard lessons about communicable childhood diseases being re- learned.

Maybe in 50 years, but it seems to me that for the near future there is a self-reinforcing loop pushing against vaccines. As fewer children are vaccinated and we lose herd immunity, vaccines will become less effective which will cause people who are on the fence to not vaccinate which will lead to further loss of effectiveness and even fewer willing to vaccinate.

And who's going to convince them otherwise? Health experts who lied about covid, transgenderism, and food safety? Scientists who lied about climate change, chemtrails and the shape of the earth? Government which is the problem not the solution?

OK, I'm being cynical but it's hard for me to see a path back on this or a good many other areas. I've been doing a good bit of thinking lately about adapting to the new normal.

[JohnL]

I wonder if the next 50 years will see some hard lessons about communicable childhood diseases being re- learned.

Maybe in 50 years, but it seems to me that for the near future there is a self-reinforcing loop pushing against vaccines. As fewer children are vaccinated and we lose herd immunity, vaccines will become less effective which will cause people who are on the fence to not vaccinate which will lead to further loss of effectiveness and even fewer willing to vaccinate.

And who's going to convince them otherwise? Health experts who lied about covid, transgenderism, and food safety? Scientists who lied about climate change, chemtrails and the shape of the earth? Government which is the problem not the solution?

OK, I'm being cynical but it's hard for me to see a path back on this or a good many other areas. I've been doing a good bit of thinking lately about adapting to the new normal.

I agree that "experts" have lost their credibility. I'm wondering though if the overuse of vaccines can also be a problem like the overuse of antibiotics? I've heard it discussed that some of these diseases are evolving too and that the vaccines might not be as effective against the new form of the disease.