Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[Bootstrap]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

[Bootstrap]

A good article that predicted what was coming:

The Third Intifada?
Why the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Might Boil Over Again
By Daniel Byman, February 7, 2023
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/t ... n-conflict

But dangerous developments on both the Israeli and the Palestinian sides are now converging, and the outlook for 2023 seems grim. On January 27, terrorists attacked a synagogue in Jerusalem, killing seven people—one of the deadliest attacks on Israelis in years. It followed an Israeli raid in a refugee camp in Jenin that killed nine Palestinians, an unusually high body count.

This latest violence builds on deadly foundations. Last year was the deadliest year in Israel and the West Bank since the second intifada. Israeli forces killed 151 Palestinians in the West Bank and in Palestinian neighborhoods of East Jerusalem, almost double the figure for 2021. In Gaza, 53 Palestinians died in clashes between Israel and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group. Israel, too, suffered its highest death toll in years. Palestinian attacks killed 31 Israelis. The Israeli military claims that Palestinians fired on Israeli troops almost 300 times, compared with 61 in 2021 and 31 in 2020. Incidents of stone-throwing, Molotov cocktail attacks, and firebombings all rose, as well.

In November 2022, the United Nations warned that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was “again reaching a boiling point.” Amit Saar, a top Israeli intelligence official, predicted that violence in the West Bank (although not Gaza) will rank as Israel’s second biggest challenge in 2023, just below the perennial threat from Iran. Saar warned not only that violence was increasing but also that the foundations for managing it were becoming “unstable.” The policing capacity of the Palestinian Authority, the governing body in the West Bank, and its relationship with Israel are eroding. No political process holds the promise of Palestinian independence. And ordinary Palestinians are growing frustrated with established groups and leaders that reject violence—such as Fatah, the party that has long dominated Palestinian politics, and its head, Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the PA. In yet another foreboding development, in December 2022, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu created a new government that put settlers, political extremists, and racists in key positions overseeing the West Bank. All this leads to a despairing, inescapable conclusion: the odds of a third intifada are higher than they have been in years.

[RZehr]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Where did I mention Palestine?

The blockade that Israel operates around the Gaza strip, is part of their attempt to block attacks. This blockade is criticized as inhumane. If goods that are needed in Gaza are blocked by both Israel and Egypt, where is the criticism of Egypt? Why is only Israel ever blamed? Israel used to use incredible restraint. I remember when they would actually send notice to people cell phones in Gaza, warning them that a strike was going to hit certain addresses, and to clear out of that target. These addresses would be buildings that Hamas was using for things such as firing rockets from, or storing weapons. What other country tells the neighborhood ahead of time that they are going to strike a certain house, and gives everyone time to clear out? Even more, Israel would occasionally cancel the strike, if there were civilians still in danger of the strike. Who does that? Certainly not Hamas with their rockets. Hamas simply continued their attacks, month after month, year after year.

I don't know what sort of restraint Israel has been under in recent years. This is from years ago. And so maybe Israel doesn't do things like this anymore, but when they did, it didn't make any difference.

[Ken]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza. So they are essentially as legitimate as either the Republican or Democratic parties.

[Bootstrap]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Where did I mention Palestine?

The blockade that Israel operates around the Gaza strip, is part of their attempt to block attacks.

I think Palestine means the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. I don't think it's possible to blockade Hamas. I think they are blockading one of the regions of Palestine.

I don't think anyone would criticize Israel for blocking attacks. But that's not an accurate way to describe what they are doing. Cutting off food and electricity and gas to about two million people who live in the Gaza Strip, bombing residential apartment buildings, bombing the largest towers in their cities ... that's not going after just the terrorists, that's going after a whole lot of civilians.

This is one of the most thoughtful things I have read on the subject, by a man who is Jewish, is often in Israel and knows many people there, and is very sympathetic to Israel's need to defend itself. He doesn't have simple black-and-white answers here ...

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/in ... amas-s-war

[Bootstrap]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza.

The United States is not the same thing as the Republican Party. Palestine is not the same thing as Hamas. Where do I find the borders of the Republican Party?

Muslims probably have a lot of legitimate gripes against the US government. Bombing the Twin Towers was not a legitimate response. And it did not exactly target the people responsible.

Terrorism by governments is just as bad as terrorism by non-governmental entities.

[Ken]

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza.

The United States is not the same thing as the Republican Party. Palestine is not the same thing as Hamas. Where do I find the borders of the Republican Party?

Muslims probably have a lot of legitimate gripes against the US government. Bombing the Twin Towers was not a legitimate response. And it did not exactly target the people responsible.

Terrorism by governments is just as bad as terrorism by non-governmental entities.

No, the United States is not the same as the Republican party. But we elected Republicans in 2000 and they brought us (ALL OF US) into war in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Political choices have consequences. We elected Democrats to power in 2020 and that choice also has policy consequences.

The population of Gaza chose to elect Hamas and that choice had consequences. They elected a party whose ideology is war with Israel. Granted Gaza is not much of a democracy and they haven't had elections in a decade. But much of the population still supports Hamas. And now they are at war with Israel. Surprise, surprise. If large percentages of the population did not support Hamas they would not have been able to organize and execute such an enormous operation without detection in the way that they did.

[mike]

Only through nonviolent diplomacy and communication will the Palestinians ever achieve that which they claim they desire.

There is no military solution for either side. There are plenty of atrocities on both sides.

Would you say that there is moral equivalency between the things that Israel has done to the Palestinians and the things Hamas did to Israel over the weekend?

[Bootstrap]

Only through nonviolent diplomacy and communication will the Palestinians ever achieve that which they claim they desire.

There is no military solution for either side. There are plenty of atrocities on both sides.

Would you say that there is moral equivalency between the things that Israel has done to the Palestinians and the things Hamas did to Israel over the weekend?

If we look only at this weekend, ignoring everything that has led up to this in the last 75 years, then Hamas clearly started it. Both sides are committing flagrant war crimes, mowing down civilians who are clearly not fighting the war. Israel needs to respond and protect its citizens.

I'm dodging your question a little because "moral equivalency" almost never exists, each is guilty for different things, each bears serious guilt. But neither side is doing what is right and just. And both sides have framed this in a way that cannot lead to long term good.

[Ken]

Not sure where you're getting your news about this presently but please share what barbaric civilian murders & rapes of children etc. Israel is doing so I can make an informed evaluation- what source you depending on for news? I DO see the worse atrocities ever carried out by Hammas and paraded & cheered- they have to blur the details as the graphics should not be seen, in the video footage of these horrid attacks.

Here you go: https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/is ... aza-strip/

At least 765 people have been killed in the Gaza Strip by Israel's retaliatory airstrikes, according to the Gaza Health Ministry. At least 140 children there have been killed and 4,000 others have been wounded, it said.

Dead children are dead children, whether they are shot, cut up by swords, blown to pieces by a missile strike, or burnt to death in an incendiary attack.

When this happens to your home you end up dead or buried alive to die of suffocation and shock.