Nord Stream

[Bootstrap]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Did you listen to the YouTube video? They explore that question in some depth.

But they also go into the available evidence and the results of three investigations. I mean, speculation alone only gets you so far. FWIW, the video says there's no solid evidence that it was Russia.

[Soloist]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Did you listen to the YouTube video? They explore that question in some depth.

But they also go into the available evidence and the results of three investigations. I mean, speculation alone only gets you so far. FWIW, the video says there's no solid evidence that it was Russia.

I didn’t. I only watch YouTube if it’s related to my work or my patient watches something. I didn’t even read the article. The point though is both sides have some motivation… my cynicism of our country and others has only mounted the more history I know. Not that it’s directly related here, but our snubbing of Russia following WW1 laid the seeds of all our conflicts as well as our laying the seeds of WW2… by our supposed peace loving president at the time. I’ve been educating myself on my gaps of knowledge since I saw bits of “all quiet on the western front”… it’s also good to remember that the old prophets who predicted doom were rarely believed and often were the only voice who really told truth. This isn’t to say this guy is right, but back (how long ago now?) when I looked briefly into it, the destruction of the pipeline hurt Russia more then it helped them.

[ken_sylvania]

Did the three investigations find nothing because they were incompetent? Or because they didn't want to find anything? Or because the data didn't lead in the "right" direction?

[Bootstrap]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Did you listen to the YouTube video? They explore that question in some depth.

But they also go into the available evidence and the results of three investigations. I mean, speculation alone only gets you so far. FWIW, the video says there's no solid evidence that it was Russia.

I didn’t. I only watch YouTube if it’s related to my work or my patient watches something. I didn’t even read the article. The point though is both sides have some motivation… my cynicism of our country and others has only mounted the more history I know.

Well, for what it's worth, Putin seems to be claiming it was Britain. Britain denies it:

https://www.rferl.org/a/britian-denies- ... 06888.html

I don't know who it was. It's not impossible that it was the United States, but cynicism is not the same thing as knowledge. It can sometimes feel like knowledge, but I prefer to wait until we know.

[Bootstrap]

Did the three investigations find nothing because they were incompetent? Or because they didn't want to find anything? Or because the data didn't lead in the "right" direction?

Or because they didn't have solid evidence that told them who did it. You left that possibility out, but I think it's the most likely one. Think of it this way: if they point at the wrong culprit, that would have massive international repercussions. They don't want to get this wrong.

Germany, Denmark, and Sweden probably all assumed that Russia did it, but they said they have no solid evidence of that. I think there are rumblings that their governments still believe that Russia did it, but they don't want to claim that without solid proof.

[Soloist]

Did you listen to the YouTube video? They explore that question in some depth.

But they also go into the available evidence and the results of three investigations. I mean, speculation alone only gets you so far. FWIW, the video says there's no solid evidence that it was Russia.

I didn’t. I only watch YouTube if it’s related to my work or my patient watches something. I didn’t even read the article. The point though is both sides have some motivation… my cynicism of our country and others has only mounted the more history I know.

Well, for what it's worth, Putin seems to be claiming it was Britain. Britain denies it:

https://www.rferl.org/a/britian-denies- ... 06888.html

I don't know who it was. It's not impossible that it was the United States, but cynicism is not the same thing as knowledge. It can sometimes feel like knowledge, but I prefer to wait until we know.

I don’t know who it was nor did I ever claim to know.

[ken_sylvania]

Did the three investigations find nothing because they were incompetent? Or because they didn't want to find anything? Or because the data didn't lead in the "right" direction?

Or because they didn't have solid evidence that told them who did it. You left that possibility out, but I think it's the most likely one. Think of it this way: if they point at the wrong culprit, that would have massive international repercussions. They don't want to get this wrong.

Germany, Denmark, and Sweden probably all assumed that Russia did it, but they said they have no solid evidence of that. I think there are rumblings that their governments still believe that Russia did it, but they don't want to claim that without solid proof.

That's also possible, but my observations and experience with government would suggest that the US wouldn't need solid evidence before they would accuse Russia, if they even just had a shred of evidence to go off of.

[Sliceitup]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Haven’t read the story, but the motivation was always a huge problem for me. In my opinion there’s no single country that has motivation enough that it outweighs the risks.

[temporal1]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Both Russia and the U.S., maybe others.
i’m with Mike Lee, P.7, being troubled i can’t just trust the U.S. is above board and innocent. That’s sad.

And, believing this way, does NOT suggest i’m supporting or making excuses for Russia!
Jumping to such accusations/conclusions gets tiresome.

[Soloist]

Who has the motivation for which lie?

Both Russia and the U.S., maybe others.
i’m with Mike Lee, P.7, being troubled i can’t just trust the U.S. is above board and innocent. That’s sad.

And, believing this way, does NOT suggest i’m supporting or making excuses for Russia!
Jumping to such accusations/conclusions gets tiresome.

No country, Russia, USA, England, Germany and so on has ever been above the board and innocent.
They never have been, but our own patriotic propaganda is before us painting other countries as worse.