Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:02 am
It would be concerning if those receiving vaccine boosters were dying of Covid at higher rates than the unvaccinated. Fortunately the exact opposite is the case.
higher would be much more than concerning, it would be a complete catastrophe.
You don't find it concerning that one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries, that basically doesn't have vaccine hesitancy or skepticism is experience near ATHs in hospitalizations? I don't quite understand how you can continually ignore national level data.
The logic seems quite simple. Denmark is highly vaxxed and boosted, yet experience the worst of the "pandemic" so far. So the experimental, unproven vaccines that never went through normal safety studies are NOT working, yet parts of the world are still mandating them. You don't find that concerning?
nett wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:00 pm
What's going on in Denmark is concerning. They are a highly vaccinated, highly boosted country, that basically doesn't have vaccine hesitancy; the unvaccinated there are almost entirely unvaccinated because they cannot be, either too young, or too old and frail.
As cases have exploded, hospitalizations are tracking close behind, close to hitting all time highs, and deaths are trending much upwards as well.
If the vaccines aren't working in Denmark, a very cooperative country, with good health, good healthcare, and a compliant population, then they aren't working anywhere.
This may be "shedding"? Brought on by vaccines themselves?
Or vaccination just makes you more susceptible to the illness as time goes on, due to immune system derangement. This was the case in every mRNA vaccine animal trial.
Covid-19 antibody drugs from Regeneron and Eli Lilly should no longer be used because they don’t work against the omicron variant that now accounts for nearly all U.S. infections, U.S. health regulators said Monday.
Will US health regulators halt the use of the original vaccines now too? They must not be working very well against Omicron either. Why else would Pfizer be developing an Omicron specific vaccine?
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:02 am
It would be concerning if those receiving vaccine boosters were dying of Covid at higher rates than the unvaccinated. Fortunately the exact opposite is the case.
higher would be much more than concerning, it would be a complete catastrophe.
You don't find it concerning that one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries, that basically doesn't have vaccine hesitancy or skepticism is experience near ATHs in hospitalizations? I don't quite understand how you can continually ignore national level data.
The logic seems quite simple. Denmark is highly vaxxed and boosted, yet experience the worst of the "pandemic" so far. So the experimental, unproven vaccines that never went through normal safety studies are NOT working, yet parts of the world are still mandating them. You don't find that concerning?
What country are we talking about. Israel or Denmark? Israel is very middle of the road or below when it comes to vaccination rates. It ranks 54th in the world in terms of being fully vaccinated. Denmark is higher at #19: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... acker.html
What is your definition of experiencing the "worst of the pandemic". Just for comparison's sake I picked the US state closed in size to Denmark (Wisconsin) and did a data comparison. It looks like Wisconsin (and many US states) are experiencing a far worse pandemic than Denmark. In terms of the whole pandemic, Denmark has seen 3,642 total Covid deaths and Wisconsin has seen 12,010 total Covid deaths, or more than 3x more. At this moment, people in Denmark are being hospitalized for Covid at a rate that is more than 10x lower than Wisconsin and are dying at a rate that is more than 3x lower than Wisconsin. And I just picked Wisconsin at random because it is the US state closest in size to Denmark. Wisconsin is actually doing better than the majority of US states, ranking 37th in the US in terms of Covid death rates.
What national level data do you think I am ignoring? You threw out Denmark as an example of a country that you say is "concerning but provided no data as to why that is the case other than the assertion that hospitalizations and deaths are at all-time highs. I took a quick peek at the actual Covid data from Denmark from the Denmark Health Ministry and showed the results upstream compared to an equivalent US state. Do you have actual data comparing hospitalization and death rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in Denmark? I couldn't actually find any but then I didn't look very hard. But the national level data I did actually find suggests that Denmark is doing pretty well. If the US Covid death rate was the same as Denmark then 665,807 additional Americans would be alive today.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Covid-19 antibody drugs from Regeneron and Eli Lilly should no longer be used because they don’t work against the omicron variant that now accounts for nearly all U.S. infections, U.S. health regulators said Monday.
Will US health regulators halt the use of the original vaccines now too? They must not be working very well against Omicron either. Why else would Pfizer be developing an Omicron specific vaccine?
The mechanisms used by the Covid therapy drugs to combat existing infections are completely different from the mechanisms used by the vaccines to confer immunity. What evidence do you have that the original mRNA vaccines are not working very well? The most recent evidence suggests that they are less effective at preventing infections because Omicron is so much more infectious than previous strains of the disease. But the most recent evidence also suggests that the original vaccines are still highly effective at preventing serious hospitalization and death, especially when boosted.
As for why Pfizer and Moderna are developing Omicron-specific vaccines? Perhaps it is because we are now living in an Omicron world and the original alpha strain is all but extinct. Do you think it is a bad thing that medical science responds to changing variants and is seeking to improve on existing vaccines and therapies?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:30 pm
As for why Pfizer and Moderna are developing Omicron-specific vaccines? Perhaps it is because we are now living in an Omicron world and the original alpha strain is all but extinct. Do you think it is a bad thing that medical science responds to changing variants and is seeking to improve on existing vaccines and therapies?
They are because the original vaccine does not work as well for Omicron, yet it is still being mandated my many states/cities. Why mandate something even big pharma is suggesting does not work as well since they are developing new treatments?
They may help, but at what cost? Each person should be able to decide for themselves. Human bodies are quite complex and a one size fits all is not easily found. For some, the vaccines are a good choice. For others, it is a bad choice because of health or religious reasons.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:30 pmWhat evidence do you have that the original mRNA vaccines are not working very well?
What evidence do you have that they are working well? My experience with Omicron is that basically everyone I know who got it was vaccinated, or vaccinated+boosted.
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:30 pmWhat evidence do you have that the original mRNA vaccines are not working very well?
What evidence do you have that they are working well? My experience with Omicron is that basically everyone I know who got it was vaccinated, or vaccinated+boosted.
I have presented a tremendous amount of data in this thread from multiple states, provinces, and countries. It is readily available to anyone who cares to look. You have presented nothing but your own anecdotal experience.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Author Declarations
I confirm all relevant ethical guidelines have been followed, and any necessary IRB and/or ethics committee approvals have been obtained.
Yes
The details of the IRB/oversight body that provided approval or exemption for the research described are given below:
Ethical approval was not required for this work as public data analysis.
All necessary patient/participant consent has been obtained and the appropriate institutional forms have been archived.
Yes
I understand that all clinical trials and any other prospective interventional studies must be registered with an ICMJE-approved registry, such as ClinicalTrials.gov. I confirm that any such study reported in the manuscript has been registered and the trial registration ID is provided (note: if posting a prospective study registered retrospectively, please provide a statement in the trial ID field explaining why the study was not registered in advance).
Yes
I have followed all appropriate research reporting guidelines and uploaded the relevant EQUATOR Network research reporting checklist(s) and other pertinent material as supplementary files, if applicable.
Yes
The Author:
I do not think he is some high schooler. Great attempt to slay the messenger instead of addressing the message.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:39 pmI have presented a tremendous amount of data in this thread from multiple states, provinces, and countries. It is readily available to anyone who cares to look. You have presented nothing but your own anecdotal experience.
Myself and others have presented plenty of evidence to the contrary, and you've always handwaved away. It's become obvious that you only accept data or research that proves things you want to believe:
- Vaccines are safe and effective. It is impossible for any of the vaccines to be unsafe or to be ineffective.
- There are no worthwhile treatments other than vaccines or redesemvir. Other treatments like ivermectin or monoclonal antibodies are bad and the government should take strong steps to prevent people from using or seeking them.
- Despite the vaccine being safe and effective, unvaccinated people present a grave threat to vaccinated people's health.
- The only reason COVID still exists is because of unvaccinated people.
- Countries with a lot of COVID cases and/or deaths must be that way because not enough people got vaccinated.
